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Cleavagegate


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#1 jackdiddley

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 01:07 PM

I would like to think I am pretty progressive when it comes to equality in general and feminism in particular. I certainly find myself getting more and more annoyed when I see media stories about female athletes that focus on the looks of the athlete rather than their skill and performance in their sport.But sometimes things happen that I just don't understand. And when I don't understand, I want to know why.

 

Which brings me to Cleavegegate.

 

Last week, Susan Sarandon appeared at the Screen Actors Guild awards, where she presented a speech for In Memoriam section of the show. Here is what she wore:

 

635902614198949881-GTY-507663710.jpg

 

Piers Morgan (former newspaper editor, former US talk show host, current UK breakfast TV host) tweeted, calling her outfit "tacky". Outrage ensued. And I understood at this point. But then he clarified what he meant, saying that he didn't think her outfit was appropriate for an In Memoriam segment. But the outrage continues.

 

Morgan has been accused of ageism (though he has made no reference to Sarandon's age), and sexism. This has come in two forms: that he is somehow telling women what they can and can not wear; and body shaming. This is despite the fact that at no point has he said that Sarandon shouldn't wear this outfit, or that she isn't attractive enough for such an outfit, or anything of like.

 

Morgan's entire argument centres around his belief that "you wouldn't go to a funeral dressed like that, so why wear it for an In Memoriam segment".

 

This is what I don't understand about the whole story. As far as I can tell, Morgan is not guilty of what he has been accused of. He's not saying anything about Sarandon's age, he has actively supported her freedom to wear what she wants and described her as beautiful. His only issue is with the appropriateness given the situation (for comparison, would it be appropriate for a man to deliver such a segment wearing an open vest showing his chest?).

 

Further, yesterday Sarandon tweeted a picture of herself from The Rocky Horror Picture Show wearing just a bra, and saying it was aimed at Morgan. This then led to many women sending pictures of their cleavage to Morgan via Twitter.

 

So here are my questions:

 

1. What is wrong with saying an outfit is inappropriate for an In Memoriam segment?

2. What is sending pictures of your cleavage to a middle aged man supposed to achieve?

 

I am serious about wanting answers. I want to learn and I want to grow. I want to be a better person. And if I am missing something with this (and I feel I must be), understanding the reasons will help me.



#2 aus

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:20 PM

JackDiddley. I think we haveall had people dressed in in appropriate clothese at functions.  In funerals or memorial services many  people dress in the deceased favourite colour. This might be appropiate but is strange when even the minister  has to wer a red bibbon. When I was young , men dressed in black suites with ties at funerals. Sometimes with a hat which they had to take of in church. Today a suite is rare. I can not even wear a tie .

 

Ladies in thos days wore black gown ,if italian sometimes with veils. The picture you show would never be appropiate.

Of course funeals like weddings are where we meet people we have not seen for years. We might try to look younger than our years but surely we do not dress to pick up somenbody.

 

It is not about atitude. We do not have to look sad if we think the deseased is in heaven. I like the Italian custum of throwing flowrs rather than dirt on the confin. But in the end we must dress to show our respect    to the deceased and his family.



#3 ANukularDecider

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 11:28 AM

I don't see the big deal. At least her bra is black.  Piers has a right to his opinion, and Susan has a right to wear whatever she wants.



#4 Aint

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 03:20 PM

Further, yesterday Sarandon tweeted a picture of herself from The Rocky Horror Picture Show wearing just a bra, and saying it was aimed at Morgan. This then led to many women sending pictures of their cleavage to Morgan via Twitter.

 

 Sounds like Morgan is winning! :P

 

We use dress to convey attitude. How we dress can convey how we feel about the position we are in. That outfit does not convey an attitude of respect for her position at the Awards.

 

I'm fine with her wearing that, had she not been giving an in memoriam speech, but it was not appropriate for a solemn occasion. 



#5 Helice

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 09:14 AM

I can sort of see both sides of this conundrum.   :)

 

Piers Morgan is one of the smarmiest, whiniest, silliest, most annoying personalities one can come across on the tube, and his pronouncements of this sort seem to provoke an automatic, knee-jerk reaction against him just based on who he is.  And, of course, he didn't "clarify" his comment initially, so the first statement from him about a female celebrity "looking tacky" was not received well. 

 

That being said, I agree with you, jack, that  this outfit worn by Sarandon was probably not the best choice for an "In Memoriam" segment meant to honor those who have passed.  Certainly the amount of skin shown would not have raised anyone's eyebrow if merely done to read nominations or hand out awards, but the whole Memoriam association should be treated with a bit more dignity.

 

So, in brief, Susan Sarandon wore an inappropriate outfit for her duties, and Piers Morgan is still a silly twit,   ;)



#6 jackdiddley

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 11:21 AM

Excellent Helice. I find myself thinking that, however distasteful agreeing with Morgan is.

#7 minesadorada

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 03:15 PM

I have no idea why Piers Morgan is vilified so much in the U.S.A.

Is it because of the anti gun-control segments he did?  Is it because he is a populist broadcaster?  Compared so someone like Trump or Palin, he seems to have integrity.

I see nothing wrong in most of his views as I read of them.  Perhaps I missed something..



#8 Helice

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 04:14 PM

I believe it is because he is rather preachy and judgemental on US television, and behaves in an extremely supercilious manner with no apparent justification for acting so. :)   If he is in favor of gun control then I applaud him for it, but of course a non-citizen who comes to the US to preach gun control in an arrogant manner might possibly be stepping on some toes, yes?

 

I was under the impression that Mr. Morgan is not overly loved in his home country either... was I mistaken about that...?



#9 jackdiddley

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:11 AM

Morgan was relieved of his position as editor of the Daily Mirror in 2004 after he published photographs, purportedly showing British soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners, which were later proved to be fake.

Trinity Mirror Group, the company that owns the Mirror, admitted in 2014 to its journalists hacking people's phones in order to get scoops. According to the BBC, the majority of this occurred in the early 2000's, when Morgan was editor.

Add into this the apparently arrogance with which he appear to go about life, and it all makes him someone that it is very difficult to like.

#10 Aint

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:23 AM

I've no idea what Morgan's politics are. Sarandon's, either. Looking at this as a one off event, Sarandon wore an inappropriate outfit for the role she was in. A celebrity, of all people, should understand that. 

 

But, celebrity. What we really have here is a story of two celebrities who did and said something to get seen and heard, and that is how a celebrity do.  



#11 Helice

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:50 PM

Susan Sarandon tried to turn this disapproving comment from Morgan into a feminism moment, I think.  

 

Susan-Sarandon-responds-to-Piers-Morgan-

 

She is a 69 year old actor making a statement about ageism against women in the film business, and her choice to wear a "revealing" outfit (which wasn't all that shockingly revealing, BTW) was supposed to showcase the fact that older women are still attractive and relevant as they age.  I have no problem with this statement; in fact as years go by I find myself understanding this position more and more clearly. :) 

 

All of this would have been just fine... not only fine, but laudable, for any sort of award-show function except for the one she was asked to do -- introduce a short segment honoring recently deceased members of the film industry.  Such a moment calls for at least the appearance of sober sincerity and dignity, and a male presenter wearing an outfit that revealed a great deal of skin during such an occasion would also have been making a self-serving and inappropriate choice of wardrobe.  

 

There is her picture, above, featuring the infamous "cleavage".  Does anyone think that, aside from memorial services, this outfit was inappropriate or distasteful in any way...?



#12 Helice

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:53 PM

...and, as a side issue, does anyone apart from myself think that "cleavage" is a silly, silly word to refer to the crease between a woman's breasts? 

 

At least in French it doesn't sound so crass....  "d├ęcolletage" is a far superior term.  :)



#13 jackdiddley

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 01:45 PM

Sarandon, and anyone else, is free to wear whatever they want. The only complaint about her choice of outfit is the fact that she was doing the memorial part of the show.

Actually, that's not true. Sarandon got a lot of abuse online about her choice of outfit that was both sexist AND ageist. And it was much, much more offensive than Morgan's "tacky" comment. There definitely is an issue with misogyny online.

#14 aus

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:49 PM

I did not know this person. But any one wearing a black bra and little else as a tribute for the dead is  hypocrite. She is not giving respect to the dead but just promoting herself.





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