Registered: 04/11/05
Loc: A westerly Confederate State
Guns have their place in a society, but look at what has evolved over the last 20 or 30 years. It's become a national obsession, and what once amounted to a tool for hunting and home protection has become the tool of choice for the professional fear mongerers.
It's bizarre is what it is. And yes, I own one or two handguns and a shotgun, but I don't go ape sh*t every time someone mentions reasonable control when it comes to assault rifles and high cap magazines and semi-automatic pistols.
So some ATF bureaucrat screwed up one gun tracing operation. They were trying to track these weapons being straw bought in the U.S. and resold in Mexico to cartel killers, and calling them killers is putting it mildly. These guys have gone off the edge. And everybody knows they are getting a lot of their guns from the gun shops along the border via straw buyers.
But the NRA hits the ceiling when you mention tracing guns or looking into the records of gun shop owners and gun show peddlers. They are paranoid plain and simple, and all they need is a conspiracy website to fit in with the other kooks.
Wake, you're right... Guns are the tool of choice for professional fear mongers. Those being the Brady Campaign and and people like Carolyn McCarthy whose husband was murdered on Long Island.
I can sympathize with people who are victims of such violent crime. But this nonsense of banning sporter rifles like the AK47, AR's(the evil black gun), and other such weapons will do nothing to reduce gun crime in this country.
Wake, it would be feel good legislation. Virtually no crimes are done with AR-15's. The DC shooter used one but nearly all his kills were with one single shot. He could have just as easily pulled that off with a .308 hunting rifle. Are you ready to ban those also?
I just don't understand why people are so hellbent on banning certain types of rifles when they're used in pretty much no firearm crimes.
Of course the question continues to remain, what is reasonable gun control?
I think what we have now is more than reasonable. But that's just me.
The ATF's Operation Fast and Furious has failed miserably in a very bloody way.
The ATF for months gave the go ahead for gun stores in Arizona to knowingly allow straw purchases to be conducted in which the firearms sold ended up in Mexico, many in the hands of the brutal cartels there who have conducted an extremely violent war along the US border. The ATF brass, along with the Attorney General's office, have allowed this as a means to track the weapons in an attempt to get at the higher ranking cartel members.
In the end, thousands of weapons that the ATF were supposed to be tracking have either completely disappeared or have been used in bloody attacks against civilians, opposing cartel members, and Mexican police and military.
Both Eric Holder and President Obama have denied knowing about this program which came to light after a border agent was murdered with one of the weapons the ATF allowed to cross the border.
ATF agents pleaded with their commanders to stop the program but their pleas obviously went unheeded. While it's unlikely that the majority of weapons used in this war are being supplied by US gun sales contrary to media reports, it is now obvious that a very large amount have been supplied by the US government themselves.
I've always despised Eric Holder. He's a creep of magnificent proportions and regardless of whether he knew about this program or not, he should be removed from his position.
http://tinyurl.com/3z47bns
Does anyone know the present state of this investigation? Obama says he didn't know. And Holder says he didn't know until later. So what is the outcome?
And, why would they let guns be transported illegally into Mexico?
Performing illegal activities is not frowned on by the US government when it suits their purposes. Iran--Contra is only one of many examples of the government acting against the law.
In theory, the guns were to be monitored, their trail traced, and the people receiving the illegal guns arrested.
But anyone who knows anything about anything already knows that ideas like this are bound to fail. In the first place there is corruption in both Mexico and America. Second, there are too many weapons to trace. Third, they need Mexican nationals to trail the guns because Americans stick out like un dolor en el pulgar.
Sting operations only work when everyone knows what they're doing.
Performing illegal activities is not frowned on by the US government when it suits their purposes. Iran--Contra is only one of many examples of the government acting against the law.
In theory, the guns were to be monitored, their trail traced, and the people receiving the illegal guns arrested.
But anyone who knows anything about anything already knows that ideas like this are bound to fail. In the first place there is corruption in both Mexico and America. Second, there are too many weapons to trace. Third, they need Mexican nationals to trail the guns because Americans stick out like un dolor en el pulgar.
Sting operations only work when everyone knows what they're doing.
Only this was not a sting. Agents were apparently told not to arrest anyone. They simply watched as guns pured into Mexico.
Atf agents asked why, and they were never told, according to John Dodson, special agent.
You correctly say, illegal. But, who was the guilty party. Obama says it wasn't him. Holder says it wasn't him. Atf doesn't operatae on their own.
This operation only came known when an Atf agent blew the whistle on them. And that was bcause of the death of the border agent Brian Terry, in Dec of 2010. Some fear the gun that killed Terry may have been one that was allowed through by Atf agents. They also fear the gun used to shoot Gabby Giffords may have been also one of those.
The ATF's Operation Fast and Furious has failed miserably in a very bloody way.
The ATF for months gave the go ahead for gun stores in Arizona to knowingly allow straw purchases to be conducted in which the firearms sold ended up in Mexico, many in the hands of the brutal cartels there who have conducted an extremely violent war along the US border. The ATF brass, along with the Attorney General's office, have allowed this as a means to track the weapons in an attempt to get at the higher ranking cartel members.
In the end, thousands of weapons that the ATF were supposed to be tracking have either completely disappeared or have been used in bloody attacks against civilians, opposing cartel members, and Mexican police and military.
Both Eric Holder and President Obama have denied knowing about this program which came to light after a border agent was murdered with one of the weapons the ATF allowed to cross the border.
ATF agents pleaded with their commanders to stop the program but their pleas obviously went unheeded. While it's unlikely that the majority of weapons used in this war are being supplied by US gun sales contrary to media reports, it is now obvious that a very large amount have been supplied by the US government themselves.
I've always despised Eric Holder. He's a creep of magnificent proportions and regardless of whether he knew about this program or not, he should be removed from his position.
http://tinyurl.com/3z47bns
Does anyone know the present state of this investigation? Obama says he didn't know. And Holder says he didn't know until later. So what is the outcome?
And, why would they let guns be transported illegally into Mexico?
Quantrill
I don't even know what happened to that pallet of money they lost in Iraq. They being the government, I suppose.
It seems the former AG under Bush was made aware of a program where guns were allowed to cross the border and then lost during the Bush Administration.
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