Hello aus22,

You say:



Well, for what its worth ? I can see how that would be possible., as what I was taught when I was in the catholic fate.
A lot of things are sure not in my bible that I was taught.
And a lot of things , I should have learned they did not teach.



Well in a way I can see the point !
From what I came from.
But......... now at our church, we are all family !
We all talk to each other , respect each other, and as a loving family we know whats going on in every ones life.
Respect and Love we all do our best in this.

I can not see any point in different Churches attacking one another. I learn a lot more as I got older. It is true. But now that i understand they do not contradict the Bible.Similarly There are many things I learnt in later life. Not everything can be taught at once. I am glad you have found a church that is a family. I have found one as well.

Hello aus22,

I thought maybe it was just the church I went to .

But as new people come into our bible church, I am finding that most of the people are former catholic, from other parishes.

And now going through the bible study we have been into.
I can see why. There has been at least one very bad one.
Maybe more, but not as bad . One was going to have one of
the apostles killed. That sure shook me up !

Minesadorada can speak for himself

There are religions without priests. If you decide to follow the teachings of Zeus or Baal for instance, there will be no priest to guide you.

What is the opinion of Zeus on contraception and gay marriage? Would Zeus want you to vote republican or democrat? Neither Plato nor Homer's descriptions of Zeus will help you - you will only have 'prayer-and answer' to fall back on. Good luck with that.

Without access to priestly 'interpretation', I suggest these would also be difficult questions for a modern Christian to ask of his own religion. The Bible references to homosexuality and contraception are far from prominent and arguably obscure.

The bible expressly warns against engaging in Earthly politics ('power over'), instead urging readers to concentrate on service ('power under') and the 'otherworldly kingdom of God'

I have nothing against the original christian philosophy of value-free service, but despair at the self-serving arrogance and corrupt teachings of many in the modern priesthood.

Pretty-much all of the bad done in the name of christianity was urged by priests, and it continues up to this day. The same of course can be said of muslim bad acts and attitudes.

minesadorada posted.........



This has nothing what so ever to do with this time in history!

That was long ago and far away ..............

Grams and Minesadorada, It is true that the Zeus religion was a long time ago. Whether it had priests or not I don't know. Any thing written that far back is suspect. I do not even know if Plato or his mentor SOCRATES even existed.

What history that can be trace does show that certain men in most religions stood out and became leaders.

Minesadorda, Any religion that did not give moral laws would be of little use. Without campaign by religious leaders against Slavery and racial discrimination the world would not have advanced. I have been reading about Bonhoeffer and the plot to kill Hitler. He was involved along with many Christians including the Secretary to Pope Pius x11 to kill Hitler. He believe that Christians can not ignore the evils of the world about them . To ignore this evil would have been being too religious and not loving God enough, He condemned his church for relying on easy grace, There is nothing in the Bible telling you what to do about Hitler and even his Lutheran Church had no policy, But Christians saw him as mockery of every value they held, they had to act.
"against National Socialism is essentially a fight in defense of the Christian conception of the world. Whereas Hitler wants to revive the old Germanic paganism. I want to revive the Christian Middle ages in the wake of murder, further violence"Bonhoeffer: pastor , Martyr, Prophet. Spy by Eric Metaxas and Timothy J Keller..

A leader much be guided by his conscience, He should not get involve in politics unless it was essential. Leader do make mistakes sometimes but God sends other leaders to correct them. Jesus turn out the Money changers from the Temple. I like you know leaders who came out of the wrong side of politics.But I also know many like Bonoffer who try to improve the world.

Hi aus22,

I agree with you that priests often get involved with politics. This is not what Jesus did according to the New Testament. Do you not see this as a corruption of his message?

Papal involvement with the Nazis is probably not the best example to highlight. Pius X11 seems to have been as self-serving in his lack of public outrage as most secular politicians at the time. What would Jesus have done in his position? What would Jesus do with the vast wealth and influence of the Vatican? Would Jesus hide records of his failures? Would Jesus have joined the Hitler Youth (as Razinger did) in order to avoid personal consequences?

Here's a quote from a Jewish website. I would assume they would be especially knowledgeable about Holocaust history:



Zeus was said to be especially harsh on Hubris. Sometimes, he struck such individuals dead with a carefully-aimed thunderbolt that would probably appear as a heart attack today.

Jesus didn't seem to mind slavery at all. Were his priests right to oppose it (albeit after nearly 2000 years of inaction), given the Bible's tacit approval of the practice? In which case, why do so many priests oppose gay marriage citing biblical reasons?

Maybe Zeus should be unpacking his thunderbolt kit again.

The religious opposition to gays is based on the rule in Leviticus, from the Old Testament, which, as Grams will tell you, no longer applies to this world.

Unless those making the rules today pick and choose which rules are valid and which are not. God is certainly silent on the subject.

Leviticus 18:22 says nothing about lesbian marriage. Does the Bible condemn pedophilia? I know it forbids sex with a menstruating woman or any close relative.

Cherry-picking the Bible is a priestly act of modern hubris all too familiar. Ironic, since priests wrote the book in the first place. Dispensationalism translates easily to 'cherry-picking'

Religious opposition is not the same as priestly opposition. It's important to note the difference. Homophobia is not part of religion.

Here's a pro-religious link with an analysis of Leviticus' rules:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh4.htm