Shout Box

Sponsors
Who's Online
1 registered (Chocolategenii), 67 Guests and 147 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Good Stuff
Photo Gallery
my wife and my daughter
Addition to the mines household
Our "new" piano
Our Christmas Night Snow
2010 Additions from tonight's carving event
The Whole Kitten Kaboodle
Davis Mountains, Texas
My gun collection by Wakeholden
Spring lawn flowers
Future ruler of the world.
New Reply
Topic Options
Hop to:
#333971 - 01/03/12 12:26 PM 1492 Molding the Modern World
Chocolategenii Online

Domestic Affairs Moderator
Registered: 10/03/06
Loc: California
Yesterday was Granada Day...January 2, 1492....The leader of the last Arab stronghold in Spain surrendered to Spanish forces loyal to King Ferdinand II and Queen Isabella I. The monarchs celebrated by financing Columbus’ expedition and also by expelling all of their Jewish subjects.

The fall of Moorish Granada to the Catholic Spaniards was one of the most unappreciated moments in western history. The two Catholic houses of Aragon and Castille united under the marriage of Ferdinand and Isabella and immediately put their efforts to removing Islam from Iberia (Spain)....the repercussions of this have molded our modern world.

The Catholics waged an intense Holy War and finally succeeded with the fall of Alhambra in Granada. The Moors (Islam) were expelled....but so were the Jews. This created a huge economic vacuum in Spain at a time when the royal treasury was in war debt. Spain was now a nation filled with warriors and soldiers with nothing to do except wait for payment from a depleted treasury. What to do with these warriors? ...the last thing you wanted was to keep them at home, dissatisfied..so Ferdinand and Isabella sent them overseas. It was a win win win for them...soldiers were seeking new conquests: plenty of those "out there". And...they were told, it was a Holy Dictate to spread the word of the Catholic God. And, they were told...riches could be found by securing passages to the eastern lands through the western ocean, a percentage of which would be kept by the conquerors, plus huge grants of land and title.

The result was their discovery of a new lands ripe for plunder, filled with gold, silver, resources and new "converts" to Catholicism. Enter the Golden Age of Spain, which forced European expansion and western religious wars and competition into the new lands...(it also led to the creative genius such as Cervantes and Lope De Vega, but that's another story)

EVERYTHING we are today, everything the American hemisphere became, can be traced directly to the fall of Granada as a result. ....unfortunately for Spain, it meant their decline as a world power as they became more dependent on oversea fortunes.

Yesterday was Granada Day....and as I was sick with a cold, I waited until today to post this. Interesting tine in history...to say the least.
_________________________
"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really ONE."
Lakota leader Black Elk
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
Forum Insert for Unregistered Readers

Get rid of this ad by registering now! Click here to become a member now.

#333979 - 01/03/12 08:54 PM Re: 1492 Molding the Modern World [Re: Chocolategenii]
Docinbird Offline
new member
Registered: 04/06/11
Loc: Northern California
My ancestors were lax in not checking that each batch of immigrants had the proper visas. They didn't account for "anchor babies" or the guns that the Christian invaders carried.

Yes, it was an important date in history.
_________________________
Not ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge. --Alfred North Whitehead
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#333981 - 01/03/12 09:34 PM Re: 1492 Molding the Modern World [Re: Docinbird]
Dax Offline

Administrator
Registered: 08/01/99
Loc: New York, NY (New York)
Just think...if American settlers didn't have guns, there would be no Indian casinos.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#333987 - 01/03/12 10:26 PM Re: 1492 Molding the Modern World [Re: Dax]
minesadorada Offline
veteran member
Registered: 09/28/10
Loc: Tenerife, Spain
Columbus set forth from an island I can see from my living room.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#334174 - 01/13/12 07:11 PM Re: 1492 Molding the Modern World [Re: Chocolategenii]
aus22 Offline
V.I.P.
Registered: 11/19/01
Loc: Melbourne. Australia
The defeat of the last Muslim rulers in Spain was a significant date. It is similar to the defeats of the Scots in Great Britain, or the rise of Cromwell .Changes in Spain Portugal and Britain made the modern world. This countries provided the explores and soldiers to colonize large parts of Asia, Africa and the Americas.

These countries became powerful because of their empires but are now poor. It is true that their empires brought great harm . However the expansion of their culture did great good. Brazil and East Timor are grateful to the Portuguese and still speak their language. In fact it was this history that gave them freedom and the right to be treated as individual nations.

Spain also spread its culture and language to most of South America and the Philippines. It is true they brought both the cross and the sword, This can be seen in statutes of the conquerors in Philippines churches. Whether the Cross could have flourish without the sword is debatable. But it was the Cross that become the lasting legacy.

Britain or England brought the Anglican and Calvinist religions. They also come with the sword. But after conquering the natives they brought their religions to the new world. Perhaps their lasting legacy is the English Bible. This has done much to bring freedom and rule of law long after the foreign soldiers left.

Colonial rule of other countries has good and bad points but in the end it has made a better world.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#334186 - 01/14/12 01:30 PM Re: 1492 Molding the Modern World [Re: aus22]
minesadorada Offline
veteran member
Registered: 09/28/10
Loc: Tenerife, Spain
Originally Posted By: aus22

Colonial rule of other countries has good and bad points but in the end it has made a better world.


Do you feel that is true of Australia? How would the aborigonies and asians have fared in your country had the historical British racism been out of the equation?
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#334188 - 01/14/12 02:54 PM Re: 1492 Molding the Modern World [Re: aus22]
Chocolategenii Online

Domestic Affairs Moderator
Registered: 10/03/06
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: aus22


Colonial rule of other countries has good and bad points but in the end it has made a better world.


For the 90% of natives that perished in the Americas as a result of the slaughter by western man...colonial rule was not a positive thing. Even the Cherokee...who acclimated quickly to white man's ways...by maintaining as many black slaves as whites....and also their leaders lived in homes rivaling any colonial mansion. The trail of tears did two things...whites stole the Cherokee "communities and land"....AND more importantly, marching the Cherokees and other tribes to Oklahoma repressed them...since culturizing to white man standards was the real threat to white man settlers.

Regarding East Timor ...During WW2, 2 million of these East Timor fine people died protecting Australia...yet Australians never recognise this either. I spent quit a bit of time in Australia...and I was once interviewed here in the USA as part of a survey about "heroes". I said mine were Xanana Gusmao and Jose Ramos Horta. Because neither were on "the list", I was unceremoniously told that my opinions were no longer needed and "Thank You and Have a Nice Day".
_________________________
"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really ONE."
Lakota leader Black Elk
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#334195 - 01/14/12 07:11 PM Re: 1492 Molding the Modern World [Re: minesadorada]
aus22 Offline
V.I.P.
Registered: 11/19/01
Loc: Melbourne. Australia
Minsadorada, The Aboriginals were treated badly in the British invasion of Australia. Some were killing wars like the American Indians but as they were fairly peaceful this was no so common here.However many were killed by diseases brought by the white man. They are now only 2% of the population. Most were driven from their lands.

Today their original inhabitants are recognized. Some land has been given back but only in desert areas. Nearly all public buildings fly an aboriginal flag as well as the Australia flag. Their original occupation of the land is recognizes at all public ceremonies.

This does not mean they have equal rights. Few aboriginals are in parliament. Whether they have been better off with out the British is debatable As a very primitive race they could not stand up to any invasion even by Asians. I think they are better off under British rule than say Indonesian rule. There were no Asians in Australia before the British arrived but I think there would have been an invasion eventually.

While we once had a White Australia population now a third of Australians are children of immigrants mainly Asian.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#334196 - 01/14/12 07:24 PM Re: 1492 Molding the Modern World [Re: Chocolategenii]
aus22 Offline
V.I.P.
Registered: 11/19/01
Loc: Melbourne. Australia
Chocolatrgenii, Things have change a little. We were the country that fought to give East Timor independence from Indonesia. Australia was almost alone in giving troops although it was supported by the UN. Today Australia is the main economic supporter of East Timor.

I think the Australia attitude to its native inhabitants was better than in North America. However we did treat them badly which we now acknowledge.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote

Quick Reply:
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is disabled




Town Meeting
Zimmerman vs Martin
by Cy_Click
Yesterday at 10:18 PM
To Compete on English Soil...
by Aint
Yesterday at 09:30 PM
Protecting the Caucasian Race
by Aint
Yesterday at 09:17 PM
Discrimination or Poor Customer Service?
by Aint
Yesterday at 09:05 PM
DISD Spends $1.1 Million on Travel
by Aint
05/15/12 10:26 PM
Stuff I Think Up
by ANukularDecider
05/14/12 07:32 PM
Vote Gary Johnson 2012
by Helice
05/12/12 02:16 AM
President Obama and VP Biden Support Gay Marriage
by Helice
05/12/12 02:08 AM
Not a Republican Much Longer
by Cy_Click
05/10/12 04:59 PM
US Soldier Murders Women And Children
by Cy_Click
05/10/12 03:47 PM
Entertainment, not religion is the real opiate of the people
by odellkewish
05/08/12 11:20 PM
Rep. Louie Gohmert speech accidently heard
by Dax
05/08/12 10:31 AM
Obama to Iran, "I mean it."
by Cy_Click
05/02/12 09:03 PM
Dude, Where's My 293 Cars?
by Dax
05/02/12 08:02 AM
The 2012 Election
by Dax
04/26/12 04:20 PM
Power to the people is acceptable
by Dax
04/24/12 07:27 AM
Should pre-teens be allowed to dress in a sexy way?
by Cy_Click
04/19/12 07:48 PM
Lookie here....Reagan says tax those millionaires!!!
by Dax
04/18/12 09:02 AM
So Much For The Constitution
by Cy_Click
04/17/12 08:31 PM
Science and Technology
Buzzards Gotta Eat
by Aint
05/15/12 05:57 PM
Out of Asia
by Chocolategenii
05/12/12 03:02 AM
Health questions from Grams
by Grams
05/10/12 09:00 PM
Can your doctors lie to you legally? Yes they can! (in Arizona)
by Dax
05/07/12 08:55 AM
Bejeweled!
by Grams
05/06/12 01:28 PM
Meat Glue
by minesadorada
05/06/12 02:12 AM
Do Blondes In the Solomon Islands Have More Fun?
by Chocolategenii
05/05/12 09:50 AM
Not a cloud
by Grams
04/26/12 06:39 AM
Diablo 3 RMAH
by Aint
04/25/12 10:03 PM
Loss of Internet in July predicted for many.
by Aint
04/25/12 09:27 PM
What do you think about.............
by foxbrent
04/24/12 05:46 AM
The Inky Side to Science
by foxbrent
04/24/12 05:23 AM
Google Art Project
by foxbrent
04/24/12 04:55 AM
MK Ultra
by stone
04/17/12 12:45 PM
Pink Slime
by stone
04/17/12 12:40 PM
Faith and Philosophy
Atheism
by Cy_Click
Yesterday at 10:30 PM
Interfaith Creed or Woman power?
by Dax
Yesterday at 10:31 AM
purgatory
by aus22
05/15/12 08:20 PM
BEFORE I WAS A MOM
by Grams
05/14/12 01:44 PM
Beatitudes for Mother's Day.
by aus22
05/13/12 08:01 PM
Bringing in the May
by Aint
05/11/12 09:58 PM
Marian Appearances
by aus22
05/03/12 08:38 PM
Spirituality vs. Religiosity - Where do you stand?
by DCInC
04/29/12 04:10 PM
SOMETHING CUTE
by Grams
04/29/12 03:38 PM
A Conservative American priest
by aus22
04/24/12 07:40 PM
Beltane and Christianity?
by aus22
04/22/12 07:46 PM
Resurrections
by Grams
04/22/12 12:58 PM
Can you relate?
MADE IN AMERICA
by Aint
Yesterday at 09:20 PM
Roger Clemens
by Cy_Click
05/15/12 05:36 PM
The rant, whine, complain and gripe thread.
by Dax
05/13/12 01:57 PM
My Family :)
by Grams
05/02/12 04:42 PM
BUYING FROM THE MAIL "BOOKS" ?
by Grams
05/02/12 10:08 AM
jokes
by foxbrent
04/24/12 05:44 AM
Welcome. Please take the time to register your member name on Fool Moon. By registering you will be able to customize your profile and preferences.