Jack , I am not in Europe so it is hard to keep up with the latest news. If Britain is doing better than Germany this is good for your country but I am not sure whether this is because you do not use the Euro.

We found prices very high in Britain ans a lot of hotel vacanies. There was more competitiuon in Europe. There must be same advantages in the European Economic Community or so many countries would not be waiting to join. I know of none who want to leave.

Even Australia is trying to have a trading block in Asia. This will be much harder to organised but there must be benefits if Australia wants a regional arangement with poorer neighbours.

Maybe Goldman-Sachs should help with the bail-out since they helped so much with the melt-down.

Jack, do you think this will help or hurt the EU, given that Greece was able to cheat about its debt?

Aus, I have no problem with forming a trading partnership with Europe. In fact, that is what the EEC (as it used to be called) was all about. However, the EU is slowly moving towards becoming a United States of Europe, and the Euro was and is seen by many as the first step towards that goal. THAT is what I have a problem with. THAT is why I have always been against joining the Euro. THAT is why I am against the Lisbon Treaty. It is compounded by the fact that the British people have NEVER had a vote on such things.

I think this will hurt the EU. Since the economies of the Euro-zone countries are so inter-twined, there is no way this can fail to hurt them. The only way to get out of this is for the other Euro-zone countries to bail Greece out and then try to rebuild.

Either Europe federalizes or it will be come a political backwater, ignored by the rest of the powers in the World. Perhaps the British would be content to be the doormat that China and India wipe their feet upon, but I don't wish for that fate. Our backward slide is already happening now; there were talks recently between the current movers and shakers of the World, but Europe's invitations never arrived.

We are becoming irrelevant to World politics. I do have higher aspirations for Europe than Jack does, but I fear, if there is any real moves towards federalization, it will come decades too late.

Myrddin, every time we discuss Europe, you trot out the same old lines. "If we don't become a single country we will become irrelevant". Simply not true, unless we let that happen. We are not becoming irrelevant. That is more because of our close ties with America than because of Europe