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#298826 - 05/30/09 11:05 PM Re: San Diego Repeals 1st Amendment [Re: jokul]
jokul Offline
eccentric philosopher
***

Registered: 03/10/02
Loc: Planet Joe
Quote:
SignonSanDiego.com...
Chandra Wallar, the county's general manager of land use and environment, said the county has re-examined the situation and decided that the Joneses don't need a permit after all.


Quote:
Religious assembly, under the county land-use code, is defined as “religious services involving public assembly such as customarily occurs in synagogues, temples, and churches.


There have been complaints about parking in the past. The problem in this case is that was not brought up initially. Instead the official that went to the Jones' house simply asked a bunch of questions about what they did in the meetings, religious things. The county says they will give some additional training to employs about their jobs and that this employee acted improperly and made a mistake.

It was always a First Amendment issue. The neighbors seemed to be okay with the meetings. Jones said the complaint was likely a revenge call for a minor accident involving a neighbor's car. I guess deifan's guess to what led to this is pretty close if Jones is to be believed.
_________________________
Jokul

The truth is the truth.

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#298832 - 05/31/09 12:31 AM Re: San Diego Repeals 1st Amendment [Re: jokul]
Helice Online   sleepy

Administrator
*****

Registered: 09/01/97
Loc: CT, US
Originally Posted By: http://bit.ly/N8MGw
Sweeping issues of religious freedom and governmental regulation are swirling around Pastor David Jones' house in rural Bonita, attracting attention from as far away as China and New Zealand.

He says it all started with $220 in car damage.

Jones and his wife, Mary, hold a weekly Bible study at their home that sometimes attracts more than 20 people, with occasional parking issues. Once, a car belonging to a neighbor's visitor got dinged.

David Jones paid for the damage, but he thinks the incident spurred a complaint to the county.

A code enforcement officer warned the couple in April for holding a “religious assembly” without a permit. The action became an international incident when it was reported last week on the Web site worldnetdaily.com.

The Joneses assert that the county's action violates their rights under the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which guarantees freedom of religion. Their story was picked up by conservative Web sites for days, then made it to CNN yesterday.

Barraged by hundreds of complaints, San Diego County officials backed down yesterday from their enforcement.

[...]

She said the county was not targeting the Joneses because they were exercising their religion, but rather it was trying to address parking and traffic issues.

“We've advised the pastor he has the authority to continue to hold his meetings just as he's held them,” Wallar said. “My hope is we will be able to resolve the traffic concerns.”

Wallar said the person who filed the complaint alleged that Bible study was drawing 30 to 40 cars.

In an interview yesterday, the pastor said at most, there are six additional cars on Bible study day. Jones, pastor of South Bay Community Church in National City, said he has visitors park in a lot that he owns beside his house.

[...]

Constitutional law scholars say that the county can impose land-use restrictions on religious gatherings, as long as they are not unreasonable or discriminatory.

[...]

As of late yesterday, county Supervisor Greg Cox's office – which represents the area – reported having received 400 e-mail messages about the Joneses' situation. Wallar said her department has received hundreds of e-mails and phone calls as well.


It sounds as though it was related to neighbor complaints after all, as I originally surmised. The neighbor alleges "30 to 40" extra cars in the neighborhood, the pastor alleges 6. Perhaps the actual number lies somewhere in between. The neighbor may (or may not) have made the complaint because of a grudge about a $220 dent made in his car by one of the Bible study attendees the pastor made this accusation.

At any rate, the county has dropped all thoughts of requiring any sort of permit now. They were responding to a neighbor complaint and never intended to deprive the pastor and his church of any civil rights, they ought to have investigated the issue more thoroughly before acting, but it was handled at a very low level initially.

The newspaper article mentioned that the county was pelted with a firestorm of calls and letters and emails after the issue was whipped up on conservative media... that's dandy, I'm only wondering if the same conservative media would have gone to the bat for any non-Christian religious assembly in the identical position. (My guess is no.)

The county was never acting with malice here... in fact it seems they were rather clueless, but had they succeeded in enforcing the permit it would have been an imposition on the Constitutional rights of these citizens to assemble and worship, so I'm pleased it has all worked out the way it has.

http://bit.ly/N8MGw
_________________________
Helice ~~~ (Nemo me impune lacesset.)

It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied;
better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.
And if the fool, or the pig, are a different opinion,
it is because they only know their own side of the question.
The other party to the comparison knows both sides.

--John Stuart Mill, UTILITARIANISM, 1863

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#298839 - 05/31/09 01:54 AM Re: San Diego Repeals 1st Amendment [Re: Cy_Click]
Red Offline
veteran member

Registered: 04/27/09
Originally Posted By: Cy_Click
You haven't actually attended church in awhile, huh?


Well the Pastor's name IS "Jones" :gasp:
_________________________
Doing my part to stick it to THE MAN!

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#298859 - 05/31/09 09:56 AM Re: San Diego Repeals 1st Amendment [Re: Helice]
deifan Offline

Sports Forum Moderator

Registered: 03/08/05
Loc: Amarillo,Tx
It was all out of spite and anger over a small dent, nothing more.
_________________________
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car."

"Hard work never hurt nobody...but I'm still not going to risk it!"

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#298865 - 05/31/09 11:54 AM Re: San Diego Repeals 1st Amendment [Re: Dax]
Joe_Steel Offline
new member

Registered: 05/14/09
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Originally Posted By: Dax
They'll lose in the Supreme Court. It's a clear first amendment violation.


I don't think so. A church's land use can be regulated as long as the regulation is reasonable and non-discriminatory. For instance, if this guy was raising rattlesnakes for "snake handling", no one would have a First Amendment problem with stopping him.

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