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#284119 - 10/07/08 10:53 AM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Ray]
Chocolategenii Moderator Offline
Domestic Affairs Moderator

Registered: 10/03/06
Loc: California
Ray, the stars are not aligned up for McCain these days. Unfortunately for him (the Keating scandal was years ago) his involvement with Keating, regardless how innocent, plays a role in today's environment. Right now the public has this big urge to punish those that caused their 401k's to diminish to the point as retirees they may have to work at Burger King to make ends meet (if Burger King is hiring). Americans want retaliation, and McCain is caught in the crossfire.
_________________________
"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really ONE."
Lakota leader Black Elk

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#284136 - 10/07/08 02:54 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Chocolategenii]
JOE Offline
new member

Registered: 09/04/08
I feel if John McCain was exonerated, then let it be!
Hopefuly he learned from his lesson. John McCains record has been clean for years. Let the man be!

John McCain has my vote! McCain/Palin for President 2008

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#284146 - 10/07/08 04:32 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Lawmage]
Myrddin Offline
Sci/Tech Mod


Registered: 01/17/04
Loc: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way
Was Obama's stand/actions on those issues judged serious enough to get a reprimand the same as McCain received? Is not McCain's pass transgression more serious?
_________________________
In varietate concordia - EU motto

For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.
- Carl Sagan

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#284148 - 10/07/08 04:38 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Myrddin]
Ray Global Moderator Offline
TM Chairman of the Board


Registered: 09/22/00
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Originally by: Myrddin
Is not McCain's pass transgression more serious?

Which "transgression" would that be?
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Debating the Political Left or Speaking Truth to Kooks!

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#284198 - 10/08/08 04:34 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Ray]
Myrddin Offline
Sci/Tech Mod


Registered: 01/17/04
Loc: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way
A person being under a corporations influence is not a mistake, if this person is a politician? Should such cosy relationships be welcomed?
_________________________
In varietate concordia - EU motto

For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.
- Carl Sagan

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#284201 - 10/08/08 05:09 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Myrddin]
Ray Global Moderator Offline
TM Chairman of the Board


Registered: 09/22/00
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Pretending a politician is not supposed to know or associate with anyone holding a position of responsibility in a business is rather naive and/or counter productive to effective economic legislation.

If you want to know some of the ins and outs of Major League Baseball, are you going to consult with owners and managers, or are you going to limit your knowledge of the industry to the totality of the bat boy's experience?
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Debating the Political Left or Speaking Truth to Kooks!

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#284264 - 10/09/08 06:05 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Ray]
Myrddin Offline
Sci/Tech Mod


Registered: 01/17/04
Loc: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way
In my opinion, attitudes like yours, is one reason why lobbyists still have a very successful, and under-the-table, business in Washington.

Is government being in the pocket of business a healthy thing, you think? Who do politicians serve? The electorate, or somebody else?
_________________________
In varietate concordia - EU motto

For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.
- Carl Sagan

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#284278 - 10/09/08 06:50 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Myrddin]
Lawmage Online
member

Registered: 07/03/03
Loc: varies from day to day
In my opinion you are wrong, Myr. The reason lobbyists are so successful in Washington is because our electoral system is open to rampant corruption through allowing monetary contributions. While I am generally very much opposed to government interference with business I submit that the only way (as well as the most effective way) to eliminate the influence of lobbyists is to take away the source of that influence: money. Completely disallow private or commercial contributions to politcal candidates. Compeltely disallow the provision of ANY sort of payment, compensation, gift or any other source of potential influence given to sitting politicians. Increase (gad...it pains me to say that) taxes sufficently to allow public funding of political campaigns.
_________________________
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." ~ Claire Wolfe

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#284281 - 10/09/08 07:36 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Lawmage]
Ray Global Moderator Offline
TM Chairman of the Board


Registered: 09/22/00
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Originally by: Lawmage
Completely disallow private or commercial contributions to political candidates. Completely disallow the provision of ANY sort of payment, compensation, gift or any other source of potential influence given to sitting politicians.

Unfortunately, my friend, your suggestions have a great deal of Sugar Rock Candy Mountain wistfulness about them. Suggesting that if we simply outlaw "ANY sort of payment, compensation, gift or other source of potential influence" we can eliminate such influence has a much merit as suggesting that if we just outlaw guns completely we can completely eliminate gun crime.

But moving right along let's pretend for a moment we really CAN outlaw monetary influence peddling. How far are we going to go with the definition of "payment" or "gift?" Are we saying that if Dick Cheney wants to go out lawyer hunting he can't accept a ride in an old friend's Ford Bronco in the field because that might be considered a "gift?" Would Cheney have to figure out reimbursement for the gas, oil and depreciation on the old Bronco and pay up? What if there are 3 in the Bronco? Does Cheney pay ⅓ of the expenses? This could get rather tricky.

Are we suggesting that a sitting politician could no longer accept a dinner invitation with friends? "Don't offer me a beer; I'll bring my own." "Gee, thanks for the Christmas sweater, Aunt Beulah, but I can't accept this." It's getting tricky again.

Originally by: Lawmage
Increase taxes sufficiently to allow public funding of political campaigns.

That might be a nice way of employing C.P.A.s to make sure campaigns spend ONLY up to a certain limit, but as the McCain-Feingold Campaign Reform debacle has shown, it NOT going to keep private money out of political campaigns.

Oh, well, we'll just outlaw all those 527 groups! However, are we saying I'm not allowed to put a sign out in my yard, at my own expense, saying "Vote For Obama!"? Aren't we treading rather heavily upon the 1st Amendment and my free speech?
_________________________
Debating the Political Left or Speaking Truth to Kooks!

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#284386 - 10/10/08 06:46 PM Re: McCain and the Keating 5 S&L Scandal [Re: Ray]
Chocolategenii Moderator Offline
Domestic Affairs Moderator

Registered: 10/03/06
Loc: California
PHOENIX—Sen. John McCain’s wife and father-in-law continued a lucrative business partnership with disgraced financier Charles H. Keating Jr. for 11 years after the GOP presidential nominee said he ended his close friendship with Keating in March 1987.AP
_________________________
"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really ONE."
Lakota leader Black Elk

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