I know that there is some controversy, about the reasons why Mother Teresa took such a keen interest in the poor, dying and homeless people of Calcutta, but to me at least, I think she acted rather like Christ would in a similar situation.

I think its admirable to show compassion and mercy, I think kindness and love are fine things to show and feel, and I think its true that God is within the dying and the poor as well as the healthy and the rich. If one really wants to emulate Christ, then they will also desire to help others like Mother Teresa did. I regard Mother Teresa as being Christian, since she acted as Christ would act, but I have a hard time seeing self-labeled "Christians" as being Christian since they often act in a way Christ would not.

Why would I hate a Christian for being a Christian?

I come to the conclusion that being a fundamentalist Christian, makes the person a fundamentalist first, and a Christian second. The same thing can be said of the fundamentalists of any religion. I dislike fundamentalism, though sometimes I have hope for individual fundamentalists.

No need to kick the trash can or dog or old lady. All one needs to do is be a Christian.

No satisfaction there. Just the understanding that it is Jesus Christ that the hatred is directed at and not you.

Lol, Ray. I just think Lees is misguided on what a Christian is or should be.

The one they call Jesus hung out with publicans and sinners and I bet Lees would find something wrong with that too.

From one I understood Christians were'nt supposed to be snobs, but they actually lived real lives around real people, but Lees is spewing a lot of fantasy of what a Christian is.

I think you may be right, SPM. I think there is cult of masochistic christians who have extrapolated a couple of Bible verses into a theology which requires communal condemnation and disgust as affirmation of their own holy aspirations. They indulge in self-fulfilling prophesy; if others don't "hate" them enough, they'll redouble their efforts at being detestable until they are sufficiently despised.

This also becomes great rationalization for their own maladaptive behaviors. You hear people all the time complaining about how they were fired from a job because they were a) female, b) male, c) black, d) white, e) too old, f) too young, g) other...when in fact, the problem was they were just damned lazy, incompetent employees who deserved to be fired regardless of gender, color or stripe.

The verses I quoted reflect the teaching of Jesus. And that is the basis of discipleship.

Since I have never met anyone who 'hated Jesus Christ' I can't in good conscience speak to what you say. Nor have I ever been 'hated for being a Christian'.. disclaimer: that I know of.



First, I will say, what the world thinks of me is unimportant. What God thinks of me is what matters. Since I've always had jobs dealing with women, families, and children in crisis, from poverty, to homelessness, to drug/violence..etc..

Matthew 25:42-45 "For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'"

and Micah 6:8 "He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."

are the verses that speak most to me about what being a disciple is about.

It has nothing to do with how others view me.. it has to do with what Jesus has asked of me.. what is shown to me through scripture and through what the Spirit is guiding me towards.

Yes, I agree. (the passover part.. not so much)

When I read this in the bible, I see 2 points as well.. in the story, the disciples are sort of fighting about who is the favorite.. and the other, is Jesus demonstrating what it means to serve. Inferiority and superiority have no place in God's kingdom. We are to 'do likewise' by serving others.

The world hated Jesus Christ then, and it hates Him now.

Yet you say you haven't encountered this hate towards Christ. Nor have you ever been hated as a Christian.

So, what does John 15:18 mean? "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you."

What about John 15:25? "...They hated me without a cause."

And in Jesus Christs intercessory prayer to the Father for the "disciples", He says, John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."

But you say you don't know such a Jesus Christ. Nor have you experienced the hatred of the world.

A revealing statement for sure.

You are incorrect, what I was addressing was life experiences... I know OF the Christ that was cruxified because I read about him in the Bible, but I KNOW the Christ that has risen through a living relationship. I can read about how the 'world' hated Christ. But in my personal life experiences, I have not encountered anyone who has claimed openly to hate Jesus. Nor have I experienced hatred towards me based on my faith.



I quite agree..

Matthew 22:37-39 "Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

1John 4:7-12 "Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. "

Where do you read that any "claimed" to hate Christ?

Yes the commandments say we are to love God. Your discipleship is bassed on law. But, what does it have to do with what we are discussing;

Yes, I agree, God is love. Good verse. But, what does that have to do with what we are discussing.

You have no reply for the verses I gave. Why? Because they say opposite what you have been propagating. You choose to ignore what you don't want to believe. You choose to ignore what you haven't "experienced. As though your experience determines the truth found in the Bible.

You spoke earlier of the book of Acts in one of your replies. In the book of Acts there were either revivals or anger and hatred as a result of the disciples preaching and witnessing.

Yet you have never experienced such hatred towards Jesus Christ. Why do you suppose that is?

The point.. as I see it is...DISCIPLESHIP... and.. also.. your insistence on hate. Which I've shown is not what Jesus taught. The quotes you use have no relevance to discipleship because Jesus is not asking/teaching us to hate anything but what seperates us from God.. (our lives apart from Christ) Jesus lays before us possible consequences of our following him.. Jesus speaks to his experience of being hated.

Jesus tells us that we are first to love God and then love others.. you keep saying this is law.. and I agree.. if we call ourselves disciples, I think it to be extremely important to listen to what Jesus tells us .. and he tells us what the 2 greatest commandments are.. It doesn't matter what people think of us.. He tells us we are to love. ..even our 'enemies' and pray for those who persecute us... The verses you quote have to do with how others might view Christians, the verses I quoted are what Jesus tells us should be our reactions, what our behaviors should reflect.



Because that hasn't been part of God's plan for me.. (disclaimer: yet..)