CG, there are several pieces of blatant misinformation in your postings. One, the odds are NOT against a Soldier. The number of combat deaths in Iraq-Afghanistan represent a minute fraction of a percent of all service members. Indeed, despite what you hear in the media the majority of service members HAVE NOT deployed to either theater in the current war. The last stats I saw (last year) indicate that only 1/3 of all US service members have deployed in support of the wars. You grossly overstate the odds.

Second, a public university IS NOT a substandard educaion nor is it not a passport to a good job. The truth of the matter is that public educations are indeed sound educations. The various state universities have good repuations. For instance, I am from Maryland. The UM has an OUTSTANDING repuation in engineering and history and biology. Indeed, the UM's fluid mechanics program is the world leader in its field. Similarly, your profile indicates you are in California. the various UC schools are also recognized as premier schools. UC-Berkley for instance...What sort of snobbery is it that drives you to categorically condemn public universities, CG? Believe it or not, the school from which one graduates is not terribly important, with a handful of exceptions. If you want one of the top tier jobs in an elite law firm, banking, or investment house you are going to need a prestigious school but then, to be honest, you are also going to need familial connections as well. Similarly, you do not want to have your degree be from an unaccredited paper mill either. Absent those polar extremes, a public university education is perfectly acceptable in the business and professional world.

Liz, college money is indeed a very strong enlistment incentive. Of course, job training is another very strong enlistment incentive as well. Bear in mind, the average enlistee is a kid right out of high school, one with very little real understanding of his or her long term goals. He or she is typically not terribly interested in going to college "right away" but pays lip service to the idea. He or she likely possesses very little in the way of real job skills. Along comes a military recruiter and offers that recent graduate a job...not just a job but that person's choice of several hundred jobs. To sweeten the deal that much more, the recruiter offers the recruit the opportunity to earn money for college in the form of the GI Bill and/or the Army College Fund. Oh, by the way, he tells the recruit, there is no need to wait until you get out of the military to get your college education because the services also offer tuition assistance which will pay for any class you take while on active duty. Or, if you prefer, you can take a DANTES test (think a military version of a CLEP test) and the service will pay for that as well.

The military is enormously committed to advancing the civilian education of service members. Our profession is far more technical and skill oriented than it was even several decades ago. Frankly, we REQUIRE an intelligent and highly trained and skilled work force. We must compete with the civilian sector for that work force. As such, we offer our employees educational opportunities and we reward them appropriately for taking advantage of those opportunities. Consider the Army's enlisted promotion system. Promotion to Sergeant and Staff Sergeant (supervising between 3 and 14 personnel and anywhere from one million to ten million dollars worth of equipment on average) is based on a point system. Those Soldiers competing for those promotions can earn a total of 800 points. Of those 800 points, 150 (18.75%) are awarded for civilian education and 200 (25%) are awarded for military education. Almost HALF of a Soldiers weighted value for promotion is based on his or her education. At the higher enlisted ranks, one needs a college degree to be truly competitive. All officers require a degree and promotion above the rank of Major typically requires education beyond the baccalaureate level. The service educate in house at the Command and Staff College and also send officers back to school to earn a Master's degree.

I didn't say a public university provided a substandard education. I said the GI bill will allow the soldier the choice of only a attend a "state university"...and said most are not the standard of non state universities... For instance in Cali, the University of California is a public school...and an excellent one. California State University San Diego, is not the best university...nor are her sisters, with the exception of California State Polytechnic University being equal to that of an education provided by a UC campus..at least in engineering and many of the farm sciences...

The old bill allowed a soldier to the choice of attending a prestigious public university such as UCLA..no more!

Odds against the soldier? Where did I mention combat deaths? Now you are projecting your own concerns....

Explain how wanting service members to get the best possible education, and the best possible health care implies in any way that military service is not worthwhile. If fact, you are the one who presents such an argument by defending those who would deny benefits to those troops.

If military service were not worthwhile, I wouldn't be complaining about how shabby the McCain votes are.

You are saying, essentially, that when an enlistee's term(s) of service ends, we short them on educational and health benefits, as though the cost of these services in America hasn't risen since Vietnam.

It's interesting to me that McCain supporters, and I extrapolate to Republicans in general, think that wanting the best for the troops somehow dishonors them, and that supporting the troops means sending more of them into harm's way for longer periods of time and nickel and diming them as reward for that service.

My fondest wish is that there would be no war at all, real or manufactured, so no Americans would have to kill or be killed. You see it differently.

CG, you did not specifically mention combat deaths. Instead you couched it in other terms. Here is what you posted:



Those are your words. If you now try to suggest you were not talking about Soldiers dieing in combat I am going to be left with no choice but to call you a damn contemptible liar.

Not at all, Dax. More to the point, you know damn well I am not saying that. The existing system provides an adequate and fair level of compensation. THe GI Bill alone offered 36,000 dollars for school. That needs to be considered together with programs available while actually in service, such as DANTES and Tuition Assistance. Add in the Army College Fund and the pool of money available for college tops 50,000 dollars. That will not pay for Harvard or Yale but quite frankly, I do not think the tax payers OWE veterans a full ride scholarship to Harvard or Yale. On the otherhand, it will pay for them to attend a public university and a number of private universities.

Dax, I think you are being intentionally dishonest in this thread. You continue to argue McCain does not support the troops. That is simply not the case. I believe the current funds are adequate and fair, as does McCain. Are you going to argue that I do not support the troops on that basis? SHowering the troops with benefits may well indicate a strong desire to support them, however, believing the current level of compensation is fair and adequate DOES NOT equate to a lack of support. Your insistence to the contrary does not make it so, Dax.

And I'm feeling rather smug. You notice how I oh-so-cleverly gave her the chance to tell the truth by asking for clarification rather than challenging the obvious? And of course, when given the choice of confessing the obvious or indulging in some contemptible lies...

Tee, hee, hee. I knew you'd jump on that like a "duck on a June bug."*


* © Aint 2008

I know that the military is committed to higher education for its employees, Law. It must be because the world has changed so much that the class of 2012 has no idea of what the world was like 'before.' That class will be the first class of the 'Techno-world,' which means that a lot of professors will have to up-date their illustrations, their examples and, in the world of science and technology, their own education.

Continuing education is a must-have today.

BTW, my Father went to the Command and General Staff School.

The Republican party provides a very unhealthy climate for any candidate coming from its ranks these days. The polls reflect terrible numbers.

The fact that McCain will be an "R" respresentative and his endorsement of a series of Bush projects, ( number one of course being the Iraq fiasco), will make it very difficult for the man to become popular with the American voter.
Not even the pick of a popular VP may make much difference.
I think the democrats would have to mess up big time to lose the White House in November.

Well, CG, the Dems have regularly demonstrated an unparalled ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I remain confident in their ability in that regard.

Indeed. Why, just their views and public statements about, and proposals for Iraq over the past few years prove that. Or were you taking about Iraq? (sigh)