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#277619 - 08/04/08 04:53 PM President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics
Aint Moderator Offline
Foreign Policy/Pagan Circle Moderator

Registered: 02/25/04
Loc: Deep In It
US President Bush will be going to China for the opening ceremony of the 2008 Summer Olympics on August 8th.

Some say this is a bad decision. They want President Bush to abstain from attending the opening ceremonies or any part of the Olympics in Beijing because of China's human rights violations. In particular, the recent attacks on Tibetan Monks.

I say this is neutral diplomacy. We are sending teams of US athletes to China to represent our nation. Our president should be there to show support for those athletes and for the games as well. It is not so much good diplomacy as it is the right thing to do for our team.

For President Bush not to attend over political reasons would be an act of bad diplomacy. The Chinese are hosting the games and our athletes. We should be the good guests and send our president. For him not to attend would be just plain rude.

After all, we are participating in the games if the president attends or not. If we were going to use the Olympics to make a statement against China, we should not be in the Beijing games at all. That is not what the Olympics is about though. This is about national pride by athletic competition, not by political posturing.
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#277632 - 08/04/08 06:29 PM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: Aint]
Dax Administrator Online
Administrator

Registered: 08/01/99
Loc: New York, NY (New York)
I really have no opinion one way or the other whether Bush should go to China for diplomatic reasons, or not. I don't think it will matter one way or the other, like it won't matter of Chavez goes, or Gordon Brown goes.

Bush certainly doesn't give a tinker's damn about human rights, so China's violations in that area don't enter into the equation.

He does have an interest in China using more oil and in developing better business relations with China, so on that basis, I'm going to say he will definitely go.

Good luck in the games USA, and God Bless America.

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#277639 - 08/04/08 07:25 PM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: Aint]
Ray Global Moderator Offline
TM Chairman of the Board


Registered: 09/22/00
Loc: Arkansas, USA
It wasn't the United States that decided to let Beijing host the games in 2008, nor was it the decision of those American athletes who will be competing for medals. That was the decision of the International Olympic Committee. If anyone has a problem with the location of the 2008 Summer Games, I guess they should direct their ire at the IOC. I,for one, would prefered that some other country had been awarded the 2008 games, but nobody asked me.

As for the President of the United States attending the opening ceremonies to see the U.S. Olympic team proudly marching into the stadium behind the Star and Stripes, I guess I don't have a problem with that at all.
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#277646 - 08/04/08 08:56 PM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: Dax]
aus22 Offline
veteran member

Registered: 11/19/01
Loc: Melbourne. Australia
Our Mandarin speakingPrime Minister Kevin Rudd will go to the Games. So wil most of the Australian media. It is was not that I have recently visited Beijing I will go as well. I have been to seven Olympic Games. While politics influences the Olympic Games the aim to to transcend this to a higher plane of peace and harmony.

On the whole I saw this in Melbourne, Tokyo,Moscow,Seoul Alanta and Sydney.There was a brutal intrusion of politics in Munich but on the whole the Olympic Games have lived up to their ideal.

Go Aussies.


Edited by aus22 (08/04/08 08:58 PM)

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#277688 - 08/05/08 01:40 PM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: aus22]
Chocolategenii Online
Domestic Affairs Moderator

Registered: 10/03/06
Loc: California
Keep politics out of the Olympic games!
Even the Greeks stopped their wars during the games. Tibet is a huge problem and must be solved somehow...eventually, in a QUIET way, China and Tibet will find a solution.

Actually it is very interesting to watch China signing up for capitalism while still under a communist flag. They still have about a billion people living in poverty (that is over three times the US population),
Only capitalism can get these people out of their current way of life.
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"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really ONE."
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#277721 - 08/05/08 07:45 PM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: Ray]
Chocolategenii Online
Domestic Affairs Moderator

Registered: 10/03/06
Loc: California
Originally by: Ray
It wasn't the United States that decided to let Beijing host the games in 2008, nor was it the decision of those American athletes who will be competing for medals. That was the decision of the International Olympic Committee. If anyone has a problem with the location of the 2008 Summer Games, I guess they should direct their ire at the IOC. I,for one, would prefered that some other country had been awarded the 2008 games, but nobody asked me.

As for the President of the United States attending the opening ceremonies to see the U.S. Olympic team proudly marching into the stadium behind the Star and Stripes, I guess I don't have a problem with that at all.


Athletes who participate in the Olympic games do not represent the United States of America. They may be Americans but they do not represent the United States. We do not put forth a national team as other nations do.
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"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really ONE."
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#277735 - 08/05/08 10:00 PM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: Chocolategenii]
aus22 Offline
veteran member

Registered: 11/19/01
Loc: Melbourne. Australia
Chocolategeni. I do not know where you get your figures
Quote:
They still have about a billion people living in poverty (that is over three times the US population),
The population of China is 1.3 billion , a fith of the world's population. The USA is only 5%

According to the State of China atlas is 44.7 on the table of less equal.USA is 40.8 not much better.Enployment is growing but 1,329m is in townships and village enterpries. The number in private sector has increase by 70% but is still very small.

Chinas poor may be higher that the USA because of its population but so is its middle class. This is define as those with households assets over $18,000 and has grown from 15% in 1999 to 18% in 2003.It also has many free services not found in the Capalists world. I think a combination of Socialism and Capitalism is require. Capitalism has not solved poverty in many countries.


Edited by aus22 (08/05/08 10:02 PM)

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#277743 - 08/05/08 11:38 PM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: aus22]
Chocolategenii Online
Domestic Affairs Moderator

Registered: 10/03/06
Loc: California
I'm glad you pointed this out Aus...some poverty reports actually list the USA as having more poverty than China... according to the Chinese..
(http://www.gov.cn/misc/2007-03/08/content_545466.htm)

I have been to China...you have alos been... My own anecdotal experience tells me the poverty in China far exceeds any in the USA...

As far as Tibet,national self-determination for Tibetans is what Tibetans want, and they are the only ones who can achieve that. Should the U.S. support their efforts? Of course. But not with military force, and not with massive monetary aid to Tibetans either because frankly whether Tibet is part of China or independent matters not one whit to the national security of the U.S.
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"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really ONE."
Lakota leader Black Elk

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#277764 - 08/06/08 05:14 AM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: Chocolategenii]
lizbeth Offline
veteran member

Registered: 11/29/06
Loc: PNW
And your experiences are most probably correct, CG, because China's population is much larger, because so much of China is still midieval agrarian and because China, as a nation, is doing little to change that. China is concentrating on industrialization as its entry into current globilization. Industry is centered around areas that have proven to be the most profitable to industry.

If the Chinese peasant (and my ancestors were Irish and German peasants, so I'm not disparaging peasants,) can earn more money boiling down the metals from the world's technological waste than through farming, they'll do so even though it not only kills them but also it contributes to overall air pollution. If the cloth manufacturers dump their chemical waste into a convenient river or stream, that's much less expensive than having it hauled away to a toxic waste dump.

It is ironic that China is trying so desparately to enter into the Capitolist world economy while still remaining under a Communist government. The USSR couldn't do it and broke up into several independent states based on historic ethnicity and languages. China is a sprawling country that has never, as far as I know, consisted of seperate states. China has always been eastern China with everything else to the west sort of falling behind it.
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#277780 - 08/06/08 11:35 AM Re: President Bush Goes To China For The Olympics [Re: Chocolategenii]
Dax Administrator Online
Administrator

Registered: 08/01/99
Loc: New York, NY (New York)
Quote:
Chocolategenii: Athletes who participate in the Olympic games do not represent the United States of America. They may be Americans but they do not represent the United States. We do not put forth a national team as other nations do.

I need more explanation of this.

Are they private athletes? Are they sponsored like NASCAR and wear Valvoline and Budweiser stickers on their outfits?

Who do they represent, the Olympic Committee? I know the games have long since stopped being amateur competition, but I'm thinking now an Olympic Season, touring track teams, pole vaulters etc. Like a basketball season or a football season, we have an Olympic season.

Someone call Miller Beer, see how much ad space they want to buy.


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