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#276556 - 07/25/08 09:30 AM Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy
jackdiddley Moderator Offline
World News/Sports moderator


Registered: 02/26/02
Loc: Britain - We're Not Afraid
FIA chairman Max Mosley has won £60,000 ($115,200) in compensation from a Sunday newspaper which printed pictures of him taking part in a "sadomasachistic orgy" The News of the World also claimed the orgy had "Nazi overtones", with MOsley as a camp commandant.

Mr. Justice Eady ruled that Mosely could expect privacy, regardless of the inconventional nature of his sexual activities. In his ruling, he said

Quote:
I see no genuine basis at all for the suggestion that the participants mocked the victims of the Holocaust...there was no public interest or other justification for the clandestine recording, for the publication of the resulting information and still photographs, or for the placing of the video extracts on the News of the World website - all of this on a massive scale


Today's newspapers have been scalding in their coverage of the decision, not least The Sun, the News of the World's stablemate. The paper said that the judgement would lead to privacy laws creeping in from Europe which would give the rich and powerful a blanket ot hide behind.

In this case, I tend to side with the individual. Although freedom of the press is important in a free society, the privacy of the individual is also important, possibly more so. ALmost every week, the News of the World has headlines about a famous person caught with their trousers down (so to speak), and to me, that just isn't news.

If someone wishes to engage in consensual activites with another, regardless of their fame, they should be free to do so, without the press publishing every detail

Full story: http://tinyurl.com/5pbb8e
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#276560 - 07/25/08 10:00 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: jackdiddley]
Aint Offline
Foreign Policy/Pagan Circle Moderator

Registered: 02/25/04
Loc: Deep In It
Unless Mosley was doing this on the side walk in front of Big Ben, I say he does have a right to privacy here. He certainly had a reasonable expectation of privacy. The article says the hooker taped the orgy in secret. Seems like she knew Mosley was wanting this to be a private affair and that she was looking to make some money by going public with it.

"As the head of the richest sport in the world, with almost 125 million members, Mr Mosley "had an obligation to honour the standards which its vast membership had every right to expect of him", Mr Myler said.

"Taking part in depraved and brutal S&M orgies on a regular basis does not, in our opinion, constitute the fit and proper behaviour to be expected of someone in his hugely influential position."
-BBC News

I disagree. Mosley's responsibility is to motor sports. He was not engaged in motor sports while having his orgy and was not promoting the orgy as a motor sport. His private life is his business.

Here's where it gets slippery. An S&M orgy dressed as a Nazi may not be illegal in England but, what about hiring 5 hookers? My dad had a saying, "It's not illegal if you don't get caught." Well, yes it is. Breaking the law in private is still breaking the law.
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#276572 - 07/25/08 11:45 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: Aint]
Dax Administrator Online
Administrator

Registered: 08/01/99
Loc: New York, NY (New York)
The private life of a public figure, in the USA at least, has few protections.

Sports figures, actors, politicians, broadcasters and other people whose names and faces are familiar, fall into that category.

In order to win a lawsuit against an invasion of the public person's privacy, the plaintiff has to show actual malice. Just getting money for some pictures, or exposing someone to ridicule does not rise to that level.

A hooker who took the pictures probably could be accused of greed, but not malice. Malice, towards a public figure, is very hard to prove. Else Limbaugh, O'Reilly etc. would be paying out slander judgments forever.

I'm not sure that attending nazi orgies effects the parts of Mosely's life that the public sees, and I agree that he was not doing anything to defame motor sports, and so in my view gets off the hook.

However, others will argue that sports figures in particular are role models to their young fans, and are held to a somewhat higher standard of behavior. But even then, the guy could get fired, but would not be arrested or charged with any crime.



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#276588 - 07/25/08 01:51 PM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: Dax]
jackdiddley Moderator Offline
World News/Sports moderator


Registered: 02/26/02
Loc: Britain - We're Not Afraid
To quote Wikipedia:

Quote:
it is also illegal for a potential client to solicit persistently, or solicit from a motor vehicle


I know Wikipedia is not the best source, but it would seem that as long as Mosley was neither persistant nor kerb crawling, he did not do anything illegal.

Quote:
others will argue that sports figures in particular are role models to their young fans


I would argue that Mosley is not a sport figure, but more a businessman.
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#276613 - 07/25/08 05:04 PM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: jackdiddley]
Dax Administrator Online
Administrator

Registered: 08/01/99
Loc: New York, NY (New York)
What kind of punishment could be given to someone who takes such pictures and publishes them?

If they aren't photoshopped, they are photos of actual events that took place.

There is no longer any "expectation of privacy" of any sort, and those who don't know that by this time are going to have to find it out the hard way.

So is there a legal case against the photographer and distributor of the pix, or is it just another embarassing incident people will forget by next week?

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#276631 - 07/25/08 10:50 PM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: Dax]
lizbeth Offline
veteran member

Registered: 11/29/06
Loc: PNW
Mosely did lose his job as the result of this incident, however. And the prostitute did take a camera along with her, which could show premeditation. Of course, she could always take a camera with her on S/M 'assignments,' to provide herself with a sense of safety--but I don't think that was the case here. I think she went to the orgy with the idea of deliberately defaming Mosely.

England has a lot of tabloids. I don't know if the Sun is a tabloid, but tabloids here have certainly been sued and have learned to be very careful with what they print.
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#276649 - 07/26/08 11:11 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: lizbeth]
jackdiddley Moderator Offline
World News/Sports moderator


Registered: 02/26/02
Loc: Britain - We're Not Afraid
Mosley didn't lose his job, and actually won a vote of confidence at an EGM following the breaking of the story.

Both The Sun and the News of the World are tabloid newspapers, run by the same company, the former running Monday to Saturday, the latter being a Sunday only paper.

I suspect that the judgement was made because of the claims of Nazi overtones than because his privacy had been breached. Given his family background, any Nazi reference would be highly damaging to Mosley.
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#276695 - 07/26/08 11:19 PM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: jackdiddley]
lizbeth Offline
veteran member

Registered: 11/29/06
Loc: PNW
Sorry, Jack, my bad. I read into 'being pressured to resign.'

His real burden is, of course, his father's friendship with the Nazi party during the 1930's. Should the sin's of the father be visited on the son?

Judge Eady seems to have made a very wise decision.
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#276723 - 07/27/08 09:42 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: lizbeth]
Dax Administrator Online
Administrator

Registered: 08/01/99
Loc: New York, NY (New York)
The sins of the father should not be visited on the son, unless of course the son engages in...well, you know...Nazi activity or something like that.


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#276829 - 07/28/08 04:47 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: Dax]
lizbeth Offline
veteran member

Registered: 11/29/06
Loc: PNW
Is an S/M 'orgy' necessarily a 'Nazi activity?'
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#276830 - 07/28/08 05:12 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: lizbeth]
jackdiddley Moderator Offline
World News/Sports moderator


Registered: 02/26/02
Loc: Britain - We're Not Afraid
No, which is the crux of the matter. The tabloid in question said it had Nazi overtones, and the judge said there was no grounds for that comment to be made.
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#276857 - 07/28/08 12:04 PM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: jackdiddley]
Dax Administrator Online
Administrator

Registered: 08/01/99
Loc: New York, NY (New York)
If there were no swastikas, pix of hitler & co. or German flags or paraphernalia, the only Nazi overtones would be the sadism and cruelty.

If some hookers were just talking in German, the Nazi reference is probably far-fetched and tabloidal.


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#276957 - 07/29/08 05:32 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: Dax]
jackdiddley Moderator Offline
World News/Sports moderator


Registered: 02/26/02
Loc: Britain - We're Not Afraid
In a semi-related story, Mr. Justice Eady is in the news today having awarded former-singer Kerry Katona undisclosed libel damages following a peice run by the Sunday Mirror claiming her mother was publishing a book which revealed she was a prostitute before becoming famous. Neither claim is true, and the paper has already published an appology.
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Still Not Afraid
http://usatownmeeting.com
My Student Website

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#276971 - 07/29/08 09:35 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: jackdiddley]
stone Online
Computer Tips Moderator

Registered: 01/07/03
Man, the British tabloids really make ours look tame in comparison. It's amazing some of the nonsense they get away with.
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Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!"
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#277085 - 07/30/08 05:23 AM Re: Freedom of Speech Versus Privacy [Re: stone]
lizbeth Offline
veteran member

Registered: 11/29/06
Loc: PNW
By Damn, I love the trash the Sunday Mirror publishes. It's much better than the trash the National Enquirer publishes,
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