The Sacred Feminie and the Sacred Masculine are intertwined and interdependant, of course. Both serving and being served by one another in an endless dance.

But for the past eon or so, the Sacred Feminine has been eclipsed, hidden, persecuted, and spit upon by followers of the Sacred Masculine alone, so I don't think it would be appropriate to yet again wrest away a thread of conversation devoted to Her, yet again to Him.

As to the love of children being "instinctive"in human females, and the sacrifice of life for the young ones being involuntary.... I'm afraid that's just a load of crap, Toabias. Ask any woman with post-partum depression. It's lucky she doesn't actually devour her young. No. Any act of nurturing and protecting is just as voluntary and act of will coming from the Mother as it is from the Father. It may be an easier act of will to make if you are protecting someone you saw issue forth from your own body drenched in your own blood and fluids, yet still.... voluntary. Self-willed act of Love. Not instinctive in the slightest.

Someone among us highly qualified to speak about the Sacred Masculine, I think, would be Lawmage, if he is following this thread. If so, I gently encourage Lawmage to contribute a few words on that subject, without, of course, detouring us from the subject of The Feminine permanently. (which is the very last thing the Masculine would desire, I suspect!)

The topic pre-supposes a one-sided presentation, liz. It's about the innate consciousness of women and the forces throughout history that have diminished and de-valued that... The Inquistion and subsequent witch hunts sought to establish through fear, torture, and death, the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and indirectly the primacy of men.



Are you saying that women allowed themselves to be burned on the stake for healing someone with a fricking poultice of willow and hazel because they have periods? really?.. women have allowed themselves to be raped as a weapon of war because they're grounded in the physical?

There are some truly horrific psych films one must watch in college.. and the one that comes to mind now, is the one that seeks to research pain and avoidance.. It shows dogs in wire cages that are electrified.. and at random intervals an electric current goes through the floor.. at first the dogs jump and attempt to avoid the pain... but after a certain amount of time .. they simply take it. One could assume at that point, they allowed it. But that is hardly the truth of it.

I contend that after thousands and millions of deaths.. women's choices were nil. Death or play nice.. and then, bless them.. there are the women who chose differently... few.. but present throughout history as well.
Just because the topic is about the sacred feminine (which speaks about far more than our ability to menstruate and give birth) doesn't imply any anti-masculine intent. Like Helice said.. maybe Law can post his drum-banging-in-the-woods pictures.. (a non-gentle goad) and speak about the sacred masculine...

I agree that women have been worst treated than men throughout the centuries.This is an obvious result of most societies being lead by men. However I do not know why you emphasis the Catholic Church The inquistions were not invented to attack wome, As Lizabeth has said they were instituted to stamp out herises. As most of the victims were clergy I doubt that there were more women than men. However in any witch craft trials it is natural there would be more women victims. It is far easier to prove a person is a witch than a wizard. This is evedent in Salem.

The Catholic Church was not anti women. Unlike the later protestants it gave a high place to Mary. She was as much our mother as God was Our Father. Of cause this was not a fetility symbol as Mary was consider as ever a virgin.This in fact may had given a higher expectation for women.

It is the various orders of Nuns that had led the fight for better treatement of women.They have been acted in femnist movements and attacking such things as female circumism.

Of course not, WS. What a silly thing to suggest! One of the aspects of the Sacred Feminine is the Amazon--the warrior.

Helice is correct when she says,



This is the Yin/Yang of human life.

She's also correct when she invited LawMage to enter into the discussion, since LawMage exemplifies so many of the percieved Sacred Masculine characteristics.

In the Islamic cultures, I do believe that women have given over their power as women to the dominant male. I believe that's wrong. I don't believe that's happened in every culture, however. In some tribes of ethnic Americans, for example, men didn't go to war without first consulting with the Grandmothers. Why? Because women, as time binders, carried on the oral traditions of the tribe. This isn't always true with African tribes, however.

The thing is, that when US women 'burned their bras' and demanded 'equal rights,' they became the Amazon part of their femininty--a part the Ares part of men could understand.

That's the imbalance. If the male of the species tries to cling to what 'makes him great' in his own life, he's cutting off half of himself.

Perhaps you didn't read in my reply the antedote about the psych film...

but why would women 'give over their power?' Perhaps to avoid death? Or complete societal and familial ostracism? Religious imperative?




Because many of the strongest matriarchal/matrilineal societies are certainly found in the Native American communities. I think you will find greater equality and quality of life for women in societies and cultures that had matrilineal descent not to mention those that were structured as matriarchal. This is one area that was (in some cultures, violently) wrested away from women as well. Men didn't like the fact that they truly didn't know if they were the fathers or not... and if land/wealth/power were to be passed down from father to son (primacy of men).. then.. matrilineal lines needed to be broken... and women included as property.. helps that the witch hunts had spread the message that women were lusty, evil sex creatures...course.. didn't change the truth of things... who gave birth to you .. usually was easier to figure out then who your daddy was.. and today, we have discovered a genetic marker..passed down from mother to child (male and female) mt-DNA not found in the paternal DNA.

Some cultures/communties today still follow some sort of matrilineal descent, although the power/structure of those communities have generally shifted to being male-dominated.

this is what I said..



I didn't 'emphasize' the Catholic Church.. they did that themselves, Aus.. The Inquisitions were about politics, power, and control. Religious as well as patriarchal..Perhaps sold as a religious cleansing by the church.. I think today, we can see through that a bit more clearly. And I didn't say anything about attacking women, but to ensure that power and control were the domain of men.. well... women needed to be shown their 'new' place.



Aus.. with my deep respect, I will not bash the Catholic church. My most beloved Aunt died this past month at 94, Sister Mary Luke who was an amazing woman, she had been a Sister of Notre Dame (for 78 years) which was a teaching order. These women are part of my heart. They have done so much good...

But I disagree strongly with you that love of the Blessed Mother equates in any way with your assertion that the Catholic Church is not anti-women. Just look at how many offices of the church women hold, how often women are part of the services, how the catholic church has supported women's reproductive rights... oops, better stop now... I realize that seperating the church from one's faith is not so easy for Catholics.. but, I assure you, I'm talking about a structure, not your faith.

Of course there is an imbalance, we deny the feminine side of the Creator also, I've mentioned many times before that the Creator has a Male and Female side, but our religions don't reflect this, so we don't get the whole truth. To dent any part or aspect of the Creator is to deny the Creator itself.

This whole honor killing thing is archaic and out of touch with the real world, and those people who practice this archaic mode of so called justice needs to be looked at as ignorant of the world around them.

We need to shine light on this so people can see the unfairness and the error of this type of justice.

"The Lord's Prayer that the rabbi Jesus taught in the original Aramaic actually addresses the Cosmic Birther, Mother-Father God. Abwoon d'bwashmaya." J. Borysenko

Now I don't claim to know too much about the Jewish faith, so cannot attest to the veracity of J.B's comment although she is Jewish.. but I found it to be something I resonated with..

and of course.. Genesis..1:26-27

"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."

What I always found fascinating was the use of the plural..
Let us make man in our image, in our likeness... Is the writer including himself in the text, or referring to God in the plural? Not in regards to 2 Gods but.. perhaps 2 aspects of God.. as manifested in the 2 sexes. Both male and female are created in God's image.

It's easy to see these 2 aspects in the ancient texts, yet, I agree you don't see them reflected in the way these texts are taught/preached. I think of the 3 Old Testament religions, the Jewish faith does the most to express a balance, however, from my sketchy understanding of the practices.. perhaps that's in theologic terms only and not in a sense of shared power..

I always found great comfort in the treatment of women dieties in Hindu and Buddhism.. they represented a fullness of the feminine..

I've only read some things on the Jewish faith myself, and I'm in no way an expert on it, so I could'nt really add a lot to what you've stated, but I will say that I've learned something from what you've said.

I also found fascinating the statement of "Let Us Make Man In Our Image",

In some mystical texts, it was said to mean that Man (Male-Female) were created in the image of the Creative Family....

The Father,Mother,Son,Daughter, but that's just one theory I found interesting and it kind of made since regarding that scripture.

Goddess Shakti wishes you "Sat Nam"!