I notice that neither Ray nor Lawmage has answer the questions about the simlarity between Vietnam and Iraq.

Has the Bush government already sent a secret mission to the various Iraq factions negotiating a peace treaty. It is strange that the pupett government of Iraq seem so ready to agree to Obama's timetables of withdrawls. Perhaps Bush as already agree on the same timetable but does not want to tell anyone .

I was unaware you asked a specific question about some alleged similarity between Vietnam and Iraq, but if you'd like to ask it again, I could have a go at it.

Indeed, Ray...I see that Aus has made some unsupported statements about what he alleges to be similarities between Iraq and Vietnam but not where he has asked either of us specific questions deserving an answer. For the record, I have indeed discussed the conflict in Iraq and its relationship to other conflicts. That discussion is available in other threads.

Indeed, Lawmage. I guess we boys will just have to be patient and wait for some clarification. (sigh)

Sorry to interrupt you two, but I found this interesting since it doesn't seem to necessarily fit into people's stereotype of the usual terrorist.

This is taken from Khalid Sheik Mohammed's written testimony at Hamdan's trial, as reported by the Washington Post:

Well, Liz, all but the most mentally deranged of individuals think of themselves as ordinary human beings. It is a mistake to think that all terrorists are deranged and as such it follows logically that terrorists in general consider themselves to be "ordinary human beings." In point of fact, terrorists in general reject the title terrorists...they tend to think of themselves as free fighters or muhajadeen or bona fide resistance fighters. They believe what they are doing is justified by the actions or precieved actions of their enemies.

Lawmage and Ray, How much more specific need I be. I ask has someone gone to the fractions in Iraq and made a deal to withdraw troops in the next two years?

This has aroused by the general agreeement of the present Iraq government with Obalma plan of withdrawal within 16 months. This is a new development after years of Bush and Iraqi government saying that the USA will not withdraw until "the job is done". Mc Cain said this could take a century.
What has change.?

Good question. I don't if that anyone in the U.S. Government hasn't had some sort of backdoor contact with various faction leaders in Iraq. But I would guess that the principal intergovernmental dealings have been between the government of the United States and the duly elected government of Iraq.


There is a lot of confusion surrounding who has said what depending upon who was doing the talking and who the intended audience was. I'm sure Maliki wouldn't want people talking about him like Tony Blair had, mocking him out at "Bush's poodle" an stuff like that. So it would behoove him to get up publicly and make sure his Iraqi public knows he wants the Americans to leave as much as anyone else.

But on the other hand, this doesn't mean he didn't slip a message under the table to Washington letting everyone know he was just doing a little campaign rhetoric and not to take it too seriously.

Sort of like a certain U.S. presidential candidate did recently when he started making public threats about canceling the North American Free Trade Agreement, and then quietly sending a representative to Canada to let Ottawa know he was just bullshittin' about canceling NAFTA for the sake of a few votes.


No, that's NOT what John McCain said. What he said, in response to a reporter's question, was that it wasn't important how long there was an American presence in Iraq, reminding the reporters the U.S. military has been in Germany for 63 years and in South Korea for 58 years.[/quote]

I don't argue that, Law. All I was saying was that I thought the contrast between how a 'real' terroist sees himself and how the majority of the American public have stereotyped terrorists was interesting.

al Qaida is, according to Khalid Sheik Mohammed, a highly organized and very efficient group of intelligent men. The organization is broken into 'cells' similar to the spy cells written about in popular literature during the cold war wherein the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. It's controlled by levels of leadership that ultimately narrows down to bin Laden, assuming he's still alive.

This is very different from the Hollywood version of savages running, screaming and yelling with weapons brandished on high, to attack the white hats.

No, what he said, when asked if the US might remain in Iraq for another ten years, was "Why not a hundred?"

He didn't say "it isn't important" and he failed to mention to reporters that nobody was killing American troops on the streets of Seoul or Frankfurt, and that it's been ages since an IED exploded in one of those towns. Like never.

Please be accurate when citing what your heroes say.