Myrddin you make some good points. It is true that Everything needs renewall. Even religious practices.However these does not mean all Gods are man Made. It is true we put our own perspective on what we think God is . So over generations our concept of God has changed.

However man has made many Gods, Communism and Capitalism for many became Gods. Their rules were just as inmovable as any religion their ritals just as absurd. They will pass away one day to be replace by another economic theory.

It is also true that

However this applies to all beliefs. Secularist Scientist also refuse to face the reality that they do not have all the answer particarly to satisfy Man's spiritual needs.

It is possible to see the world in a spiritual way, which does not require one to ignore or fear science. Ones spiritual beliefs should arise from what one sees, not from something we make as an alternative to what one wishes not to see.

How very true, Aus.

I must take some exception to your response to Myrrdin’s statement, “Man will always invent gods since Man does not want to face reality, and therefore builds myths and rituals to protect himself from it.” :

In my experience Secular Scientists always face the reality that they do not have all the answers. The pursuit of answers is what science is all about. Not having all the answers is what drives the pursuit. This is a reality that they face unflinchingly. Perhaps it is the knowledge that no one has the answers that drove them into being Secular Scientists in the first place.

I like your term "Secular Scientists", by the way. It recognizes that there are also "Sectarian Scientists". Fr. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, who has recently come up in these Forums, would be an excellent example.

Secular Scientists especially know they don’t have answers to Man’s spiritual needs, primarily because they know that the tools needed to address such needs do not exist. Further, before they could even attempt to find answers for Man’s spiritual needs they would have to know what those needs are.

Hmmm. I see another subject in this. What does the term “Man’s spiritual needs” mean, anyway?

Start another thread to ask this question .

BadBird, I think at least liberal Christians would say they do not have all the answers. We are also learning.I use the term Secular because in Australia , it means more than no religion it is anti religion and at least on this question they do think they have all the answers.

I agree it would be good to start another forum on "man Spiritual needs".

Hi Myrddin:

You wrote: I would agree with you if I did not believe in The Creator YHWH ('God' the Father of the Elohim (Mighty Ones)). Actually I agree in part in that there is The Creator 'in us', but right now not in all of us.

Also I don't believe good and evil were created. I believe they exist where living beings exist. They are just part of life and are defined simply as those actions of good which brings life and those actions of evil which brings death.

We cannot know or 'create' good or evil because we cannot know everything that causes life and everything that causes death. Only The Creator that exists has that information.

You wrote: As I understand it, 'God' is not 'separate' from evil as the choice to do it or be affected by it is there for Him to make. It's just that The Creator has the capability and chooses only good and avoids evil. We on the other hand do not have such capabilities and die as a result.

You wrote: As I understand it The Creator I worship created the universe including its aspect of time. If I understand correctly, the concept of Samara has contiuned from infinity with its aspect of perpetual life, death and rebirth cycles all directly linked to time. Correct me if I misunderstand.

But The Creator, on the other hand, having created time, is not subject to life, death and rebirth as It is outside of time and exists solely because of It's capability that does only good and avoids all evil. The Creator is neither born nor has death. So Samara or any of its aspects are not a factor in the existence of The Creator.

You wrote: Not so, although that is a side 'perk'. The reason that I believe in The Creator is that from this belief I understand that the capability of doing only good can be made possible. It just happens that eternal life is a 'side benefit'. Eternal life without only good would be 'hell'.

'Good' or righteousness, is the hallmark of eternity not just eternity itself and is the scepter of The Creator's kingdom that He has promised to us. Any life, whether temporal or permanent, is a true blessing only because of good. So it is good, or always doing right, that is of utmost importance not the length of life in any existence.

You wrote:I agree that the afterlife that the religions of the world 'offer' are inventions of mankind primarily because it was their method of gaining power over the masses by coeorcing them into a false sense of security.

To 'follow' a 'God' for that reason, offering rewards, or special favours, or escape from reality, or a false sense of security is wrong and not the teaching of the scriptures. Righteousness for the sake of doing only good is the central theme behind the Bible. Anything less than that is false and a lie. We all have fallen for the lie of the world religions that eternal life is the goal and righteousness is, well, a myth and unnecessary, even for the One Who is offering it to us.

The 'reality' of our existence is really only a shadow of the reality that is going to be available to us when the capability of only doing good is realized and we will finally see things as they truly exist, the way The Creator sees them as opposed to the death of evil due to our incapability of doing only good in this mirage of physical life we are now enduring.

I have liitle time at the moment. However I just want to say my religion offer no rewards in the next world.Being a catholic does not guarentee you will even will get to Heaven .
We certainly do not believe we will be made Kings and Prophets

Hello aus22,


I guess they have not changed enough then !
I was so afraid of death.
We went with our son to a bible church . No religion at all.

That was the first thing we learned. Christ died for all sin!
Of course you have to believe and have faith.
And do not go around doing things God would not be happy with.
The bible tells you the law is put away. No more law and works
for salvation. Or Christ died in vain . It says so in the bible.

Grams, I may not have made myself clear enough. I was replying to DCinC who I believe thinks that some people will be judge worthy at the first judgement and will become prophets and kings. The rest of us will have to wait to the second judgement

The Catholic Church does not belive there is any dicrimination in Heaven. Being Catholic doed not guarantee you will get to heaven.I expect Heaven to be full of Non Christians for they are the majority of the human race. Catolics and other Christians will be the minority.

Any other belief will make me sad and distrustfual of any religion that gurantees rewards for its followers just because they belong to a particular church or have a particular beief.

This does not make me fearful of death. In fact it could be easier to die a Catholic than anything else. All we have to be is be sorry for any wrong we have done and we will get to heaven

Hello aus22,

You said !


Yes , that is correct. But the church tells you also to do works.
and if you read the bible, the time now we do not. I posted
a thing on salvation. The whole thing is , we cant do any thing
to save our self. We are all sinners. The only hope we have is
Jesus Christ died for our Sins .