Helica's silent clip showed a bit more than the one I saw provided by CNN. Perhaps, if you mute the sound and watch both the CNN clip and the one Helice put in the forum, you'll get a better understanding of what went on.

Conjecture, albeit probably logical conjecture based on what's shown in both clips: A black woman is found wandering the streets of a predominately black neighborhood in Brooklyn. Why do I say that? Because everyone shown in the clips is black. She has no known family--because there was no one there--to be with her.

She's transported to the County Psychiatric hospital--why? Because that's what the police do. Is she a danger to herself? Not known. Is she a danger to anyone else? Not known. Has she been taking drugs? Not known.

The patrolman does his job and takes her to the county psychiatric hospital. His reason for doing so is that she is 'agitated and depressed,' or, as Helice read the diagnosis, she was admitted for 'agitaion and psychosis.' Or it may have been that the 'drunk tank' was aleady full,

Whatever. The woman was admitted and told to wait until a bed was ready for her. She was shown the waiting room and then forgotten. After all, the hospital didn't really have to do anything other than 'dry her out,' and they didn't need a bed for that.

So she sat, for 24 hours, with no food, water or real sleep, and then she collapsed. She had been sitting without, apparently, any change, on the corner of two upholsered benches that had been moved together to form an L. When she collapsed, she fell between the two benches and may have wedged her head under the spreader of one of the benches. The CNN video shows her apparently trying to extracate her head from under the spreader. She wasn't able to do so.

No one yet knows the cause of her death, but what is known is that she died in the waiting room of a hospital used to seeing this sort of patient. If she wanted to 'sleep it off' on the floor, as lots of other patients had done, so?.

Was she an emergency patient? Not that anyone could tell through observation. Was she an older black lady brought in by a cop who took her off the street because she was mummbling and disoriented as the result of something? Probably.

Was she not examined by a physician at admission? Obviously not.

Was she worth the time and bother of the health care providers at the time?

Obviously not.

Are we culling the human race?

Before I give my answer to this question, I'd like to know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. If it's a good thing we need to come up with better procedures because these are way too time consuming. If bad, well, maybe we need to come up with better procedures because these are way too time consuming.

I don't think 'culling' can be called either good or bad--it may be 'good' for the herd, but it isn't 'good' for the culled.

Sometimes, I just want an 'end line' for a post. There are some people here who seem to believe that 'culling' the human herd would be a good thing, however. Nature has much faster procedures, through natural disasters, than leaving a woman to die in the waiting room of a public psychiatric hospital.

In the best of all possible, Dr. Pangloss, these things wouldn't happen, but we don't really live in the best of all possible world, do we?

Health care in the US is the pits. Government programs were established to help certain segments of the population: children, seniors, veterans and the poor. Since then, the Government has been slowly hacking away at those programs.

I agree with Helice. The health care providers in facilities such as this are over-worked and underpaid.

Does it need to be like this? That's all I was asking.

I don't know what the law requires in the state of NY for an officer of the peace to committ a person to a mental ward. In Cali, usually after 3 reports (many times after 1) by an individual or a family member complaining about that individual, the sheriff can remove him/ her from society if he seems to pose a danger to himself or others. That person is taken to a mental hospital facility and can be kept against his will for 72 hours. during that time, doctors can administer ANY drug he/she wants. These patients become unwilling participants in drug experiments.

What do you do the next time you feel suicidal? I'm not sure... I know I WOULDN'T CALL 911 or some community help line. I would establish a relationship with a good psyciatrist, one I could call anytime. If I felt a bit mental, I would see a psychiatrist and call her or him during a psyche breakdown... OR your loved ones can call. He she will most likely get you the proper help you need. Calling a hot line or police will only get you removed from society with uncaring speed.

I know this, because I have a loved one who has had mental health issues. He called a hotline and a dherif was sent to his home. The sherriff talked to him for some time and determined he would be ok...and left him alone. Several months later, he went to the emergency room with stomach cramps. The doctors suspected his mental conidtion (I guess it was on record) .... ignored him, left him in a bed, and called social services without his knowlege. He became concerned and he called "moi". When I arrived, I undersood the implications of the situation, and removed him from the hospital. I did this not without a fight with the doctors who were waiting for social services to arrive...and committ him!

On his release form was written "suicide risk" ... The doctors gave him a percursory physical exam and determined his condition was mental, because of his record, assigned him to mental health.

I called his psychiatrist and she warned him to call her in the future if for any reason he has to visit a hospital. She set up an appointment for him with a real doctor that afternoon..which after a day of tests it was determined his pains were from a hiatal hernia.

The entire mental health structure in the USA has to be over hauled! Starting first with educating professional health care workers. Starting first with proper bedside manners toward these patients and having a psychiatrist on staff immediatley available rather than calling "public" mental health services" to visit a private hospital. This can happen to anyone, from a poor urban black in NY to a wealthy caucasian in rural America. There is a stigma attached to being mentally ill and this must change;.

Has anyone really studied the corrent candidates proposals for health care in this country? I know McCain is proposing cuts in Medicare and I know that doctors are protesting those cuts. What's the best health plan offered by either candidate? Is it achievable? What could be done to make it better?

Liz, you will, I hope, forgive me if I do not take your word for it that McCain proposed such cuts. Do you have a reference to the specific proposal? That claim sounds a lot like the other alarmist claims about cuts when what was actually proposed was a smaller increase than some people desired...As far as health plans offered by candidates...I am not sure I support the idea of government funded health care except for governmental employees as part of a total compensation package. If the government must intrude into the realm of private health care I would propose limiting any such program to one where health care premiums by individuals and the businesses that employ them are treated as tax deductable.

I read a headline--when I went to look for the story story that followed that headline, what I found was rather confusing. McCain proposed to lower the overall Medicare premiums but to raise the premiums on Medicare Plan B, the RX drug plan.

He also proposes to raise the retirement age so that fewer people would be eligible to draw on both Social Security and Medicare.

He proposes raising income tax rates for people earning $260,000/yr. or more, but lowering the tax rates for corporations, while maintaining Pres. Bush's tax cuts.

Google it, please, and explain it all.

Why don't we just make this easy, Lizbeth. All you have to do is dig up that web page again, then you can post the link to it here and we can all look at the headline together.