I was sent a note home from my daughters school late last year which asked for me to sign a form which asked me if I agreed for my daughter to get sex education.All I can say is that I do not even know were the note is today,but I will say that my daughter is not going have her mind corrupted at age 4.

This has been in the news since Friday.I have told my wife that this is the issue that I feel strongly about,and I will join any pressure group that wants to stop the Satanists from corrupting our children.I wonder if there are any more concerned parents out there that thinks like I do?

Satanists?

I agree with you cassielA in that sex education for 4 year old children sounds pretty stupid. Offensively stupid in fact. I trust they allow you to option out of such a class. I would never allow a school to teach such things to my 4 year old. I have to wonder about any who thinks this is a good idea.

I agree that teaching the mechanics of sexual intercourse to 4 year old children would be a mistake, but I'm guessing that "sex education" as it applies to this age group would cover things like "How are boys and girls different?" and "How to clean up properly after using the restroom" and "What to do if someone tries to touch you in a private place" and "How to ask for help if someone has been bothering you", and things of that nature. I doubt strongly that the children would be taught anything about actual sex, don't you?

We were all 4 and 5 year old children once. I don't know about all of you, but I have some very clear memories from that part of my life, and one of them is that when I went to kindergarten, every available space on the sidewalk and lower outside cement walls was covered with graffiti drawn by little boys. What did they draw over and over and over again? The little 5 year old boys drew crude cartoons of an enormous penis and two testicles. The little boys were not only proud of their little willies, they were obsessed with them, and took every opportunity they could to talk about them, draw them, joke about them, and show them off if they could without getting caught.

Do the gentlemen here who read this have memories of similar behavior from that age? You needn't be embarrassed, children are born without manners, it isn't their fault.

There was not a single male or female child in my kindergarten class who did not receive this peer-level "sex education", and we were all quite well acquainted with the construction and appearance of the male private parts, thanks to our little male playmates.

Seeing as how at age 5 penises and testicles were no big news to my crowd, I rather think I and my little peers could have benefitted from adult insights and explanations, instead of being introduced to the entire subject of sex, gender, and genitalia by other witless 5 year olds.

In elementary school, a little boy who was angry at me got all red-faced and shouted that he was going to kick me in the balls. A couple of his friends tapped him on the shoulder and whispered in his ear for a moment. After thinking with furrowed brow for a second or two, he came back with "I forgot, girls don't have balls. But I'll kick you in the tits!"

Ah, those precious, innocent school days! If my little nemesis had taken a sex ed class designed for his age group, he might have known that "girls don't have balls", and spared himself some embarrassment.

They shouldn't have called it "Sex Education" because people imagine their children are precious and pure little snowflakes that shouldn't be told they have any private parts until they're 21. They spaz out. It should have been called "Intro to Health" or some such thing that wouldn't frighten parents who are terrified of sex.

And I always thought that that graffitti meant, "Killroy was here!" I'm either very stupid or very naive, or both.

I agree the name of the class may be the worst part of it all. Most can't help but be bothered by the name. It definately sounds like they want to teach about sex things. I doubt they teach about how to use a condom or show Debbie Does Dallas videos but the name makes my mind consider that possibility.

I don't recall any penis related artwork from the Picasso wannabes or stuff like that but it may have happened. I know in the 4th grade I looked at my brother's stash of magazines. I can't imagine a teacher talking about sex though. It was a giggle subject.

Personally I agree that the class may have been mis-named. But in order to put your mind at rest call the school and either ask for a face to face meeting with a teacher or the head, or for an explanatory note setting out EXACTLY what will be taught.

I am with Helice and assume that it will be personal safety and maybe parts of the body...it is difficult for children to deal with the different names people call parts of their body so being taught the "correct" names demistifies this for them.

Cant you tell I have just been on a course covering what we call in the UK 'Personal, Health, Social Education' which covers all the sorts of things that kids need and want to know

It definately seems like a potentially good idea going sour because of idiots giving it the wrong name. That said, it would be a case where you'd have to make sure you get hold of the cirriculum and find out exactly what they are going to be teaching. For all we know it might be a case of stupid people trying to do the right thing, but in an inappropriate fashion.

Oh...and "Satanists"? Please.

Sure, ban prayer and add sex!

Ask yourself which is more important for a human being to understand, sex or prayer.

And if you don't say "prayer" you are, of course, damned to the eternal lake of fire where your flesh will blister off your bones on a daily basis for eternity.

I myself have a perfectly fulfilled and happy prayer life. But what you people want is to teach how to have sex with these four year olds right in the school! That's what goes on in those "hygiene" and "sex education" classes you can bet. You are an abomination in God's eyes. Just because there is no mention of sex with children in the Bible doesn't mean God wants you to have sex with a child. If you are not married, God does not want you to have sex with anyone, including yourself.

So be a true Christian and teach prayer, or suffer eternal torment while I laugh at you because I am more compassionate and a much better and more moral person than you.

Righty McRighterson
Telling it like it is to stupid liberals since 1997

As a parent with a child starting primary/elementary school in September, I think thatif Jake came home with a similar letter, then I would not be too concerned. I would, however, want to know what they would actually be teaching. Realistucally, I cannot imagine sex-ed for 4 year olds is going to be too in depth. I am also of the mind that, if you teach a child young enough, then it seems normal to them and not a "giggle" subject or anything worse, but merely a fact of life, like eating, sleeping and going to the toilet.

Preaching religion in schools has the potential to be far more corrupting than teaching the facts of life.

Ah, but many people laugh themselves silly over toilet jokes, and this is even more prevalent in the UK than the US.

jokul:

I was pleaed with your respone because you and I hardly ever agree on anything.

Helice:
I remember kindergarden when I had to go into assembely as a Christian, the asians stayed outside untill assembely had finished.The asians had an opt out,and when I go to my daughters school I will be asking for my opt out as a parent,it's as simple as that.I am looking forward to meeting teachers with same mind set as yours Helice.

Jack and Myrddin what's wrong with Satanist is it the spelling you have a problem with? All thinking and aware people know what they are upto the Satanist I mean, they want to teach the kids about all kind of realationships,code for teaching kids about "men who like a spot of naked sword fighting".

Labeling them Satanists is exaggeration, and paranoia.

I agree with other posters here, I doubt they will be teaching detailed sexual descriptions. It is most likely to be a sexual safety and hygiene course. You should ask for the exact details of what will be taught before jumping to conclusions. I am sure you can opt out of this "sex education", but your child will most likely be exposed to misinformation from her peers if you do not teach her something about the subject in the next few years.

Myriddin:

It's a free country and you think what you want.If and when I meet my daughters teachers if they come out with same kind of clap trap that you and others have come out with,then that teacher is going to be in trouble.

Myrddin again:

Dont you worry about what my daughters peers may or may not tell her,my grammer may not be up to much but I am an expert in sex,my daughter will get all the sex education she needs from me not from teachers who have questionable morals.

And her sex education will consist of you making sure she "just says no" until she's about 32. That's your right as a parent, but I do think it would help a child to learn about inappropriate touching, when to tell a grownup if someone is making the child uncomfortable, how to avoid cons like "help me find my lost puppy" and so on.

Not that you are incapable of teaching it, I just think that in a peer setting there is a reinforcement that helps the child learn.

I would certainly be against children learning the biology and mechanics of sex at that age, I think 4 is a bit young.

Even here in Australia it is proposed we teach sex to four years old. Before the minimum age was five although most parents prefer it be ten.

Almost everyone enjoys sex, goes out of their way to get it, brags about it, wants to get more of it, finds it extremely pleasurable, and wants to keep it from their children as long as possible.

Fear of sex is what drives so much of the religious puritanism in America and the world. When you (not necessarily you personally) were a kid you couldn't wait to find out about sex and you wanted to get some of that, and you and your friends talked of little else, so naturally, you want to keep it from your own kids.

Nice.

I'm rather surprised here. After all this stuff I've heard, and heard it here I'll add, about how Brits, Europeans and pretty much everyone else in the world except Muslims is so much more in tune with sexuality and not so up tight and Puritan towards sex and the human body as we prudish Americans are, here we have all this huff about sex education, in those other countries. Well, I'll be.

Here in the US, where we are either in prudish denial of our body parts or complete denizens of debauchery, depending on what slant the poster wants to make that day, I was offered sex ed in Jr High, 7th grade. Our parents were given the option for us not to take the course. The course was only a portion of one 9 week quarter of the school year. Later, somewhere between 9th and 11th grade, we had a similar opportunity. In Jr High, I remember only 1 kid who was opted out. We made a few jokes about don't worry, Janet will teach you all you need to know behind the bleachers, but really, we didn't give him much grief about it.

Compulsory schooling for us goes from 1st grade to 12th grade. The age range of school kids goes from about 4 to 6 years old to 17 or 19 years old. There is pre-school, pre-K, Kindergarten, summer courses and pre-college type courses and ways to opt out, but that's not important to this discussion.

In our sex ed courses we were taught about body parts; their looks, uses and development, reproduction, sexually transmitted diseases and birth control. There was giggling and joking. What I liked is that our teachers allowed us to get that out of our systems and use our sophomoric humor as a teaching aid. The classes were laid back enough for us to cope with the seriousness of the matter. We even touched on alternative sexuality like homosexuality, bi-sexuality, transvestites and of course, we all had questions about hermaphrodites and other weird stuff. Kids will be kids.

As for teaching a sex ed course to 4 year olds, I too want to know what is going to be taught. As a parent, Cass has has that right to know. If this class is going to be about personal hygiene and how to handle ones self in situations where they feel inappropriate; being touched on parts covered by a bathing suit, well, that's not... too bad. However, I do believe that parents should be responsible for that type of teaching with children this young. If somehow it comes to light that little Johnny can't wipe his butt, then that should be brought up between the school and the parent and be dealt with case by case.

America is not a Puritan country, but in public it pretends to be. The talking heads are always SO shocked at the misbehavior of this or that celebrity. In court you hear the DA going on about the SHOCKING SHOCKING sex crimes the defendant committed, etc.

Sexually America is a nation of hypocrites, or a nation divided between those who enjoy hedonistic pleasures and those who think the sight of a penis will forever corrupt their 16 year old daughter.

Anyone who takes a reasonable overview of the situation can't help but understand the double standard prevalent in this country as far as sex is concerned.

And, without much further ado, I spot the perfect place to announce the latest change in my life:

I'm moving to the UK to take a posting as a teacher

I arrive in the UK next week :P

Well "break a leg"!!!

Good lord. Close your windows and lock your doors. Kiari cometh.

Kiari, have a wonderful move, and much success in your new life.

And please don't quote me as saying all that Satanist stuff. I really don't talk about Satan and Satanists too much in non-political topics.

Well, look what the cat drug home! Does this mean we can no longer refer to you as our "Little Canuckian Girl?" Is this, like, you know, a permanent move? Are you going to be a little more regular around here giving us updates and the like? Is it going to be tough switching from speaking Canadian to speaking English?

Hehehe. Sorry Dax, I'm a bit rusty on the mechanics of the forums, but I'll get back into the habit.

It's an indefinite move. They don't respect or pay their teachers as much as Canada, so I can't picture settling there permanently. But when Canada can only offer me supply teaching jobs, and another country offers me full time? Well, I'll move for a year or two or three....

And I should, now that I'm done school + two part time jobs, have a bit more time to be online and harrass my fool moon buddies :P Mwahahaha!

Hello Kiari it is really good to hear from you.I was thinking about you wondering what had happened to you,I like ladies like you who have something about you.

I wish you all the best in your move to England,it will be interesting to find out what your views are on this great country England.If what I heard about Canada is true then you may be in for a big shock.

Safe travel speak to you soon.

Oh dear, Kiari, it won't be long before you're speaking with a funny accent and spelling "color" "colour".

Oh wait, you do that now.

Welcome back, btw, nice to see you again. I hope you'll be able to regale us with your experiences of "this jolly realm, this pub-ridden isle, this former colonial empire, this England." (Damn, that Shakespeare could write, coulnd't he?)

Better to check what they actually mean Cass...best not to go in 'gunz blazin' like our cozenz

We do have "Personal Social Health and Citizenship Education" which just about covers all those bases.

I should imagine Cass's daughter is 'safe' for a few years yet even if you were in his neck of the woods.

I suspect you will be working in one of our 'delightful' urban areas?

You might find upmystreet a handy website for checking out different places.

All t' best, I'm sure you'll have an interesting time!