Yes, where individual are seeking to undermine what I see as the fundamentals and the highest ideals of modern western culture, I will disagree with them.


Lawmage, the US was not defeated in a major battle. I would add that the US would be defeated if those who wish to make the US associated with torture, war and pandering to elites continue to gain the upper hand. The only thing defeated was the more unAmerican elements in your society.




I follow nobody, I am my own person.



Your reading skills seem to be a little subpar. Re-read my post, I have a vested interested, and I have an interest in your countrys future. The elite on the other hand are interested in power and in lining their own pockets.

Conservatism is full of sheep; those who support some government because of their black and white views on religion or morality; those who suffer from a schoolyard bully type of response to the rest of the world and find it convenient to call their desire for violence "patriotism"; those who are rich, or aspire to elitism and worship the rich; those who are willing to give people freedom as long as its the freedom to do exactly what they want.

What a sad bunch of hate driven attack dogs those people are, what a bunch of self-congratulating, self-righteous herd-animals suffering from self-inflicted moron-hood, these neo-conservatives are. I dare to speak against them, and I am a poo flinger and only fling poo because I watched some other monkey do it? I speak out against what I see to be wrong, and long may I have the voice and inclination to do so.

Yes I can.

But before I do, I would like to request that both you and Ray answer the question I posed.

Now, something specific, I used to be able to post here without the government intercepting my posts. Not just mine, of course. Yours, Ray's, everybody's.

I have others if you want to continue this ridiculous discussion about what civil liberties have been eroded. Everyone knows what they are.

The government intercepted your posts, Dax? Do tell? What did you try to say that the government intercepted?

Oh, and incidently Dax...you did not ask a question. You made a statement. Here is the total of what you posted:

You got me there. I did make a statement, but it could as easily have been a question, so I'll frame it that way.

In what ways have our liberties increased since2001

It doesn't matter what I say. The government (or a program run by it) gets to see my, your, all of our posts and if the key words are right they're reviewed by either a human being or a member of the justice department. Then someone will make a determination if they'll be knocking on my door at six in the morning or just tapping my phone without a warrant. Oh wait, they can already do that.

Really, Dax? And all that started with the Bush Administration? Do you have any evidence to support that claim? I might also ask, does the fact that someone in the government sees what you post on a public website constitute an infringement of your liberties? I am puzzled by that claim.

I believe it did start with the Bush administration, yes. I don't believe Clinton's people were looking at FM messages in 1999.

Do I have evidence to support which claim? The claim I didn't make until now that it was started by the Bush administration, or evidence to suggest that the government is looking at us?

You probably mean the latter. I'll cite Bush's desire to retroactively and in future immunize the telecom companies from whatever it is that they did, which I'm sure is benevolent and perfectly legal, which is why the President insists on immunity. Another Dem cave, by the way.

But that really isn't evidence, merely strong suspicion, so I'll cite the Patriot Act, and the National Security Letters portion which allows the FBI to search telephone, email and financial records without a court order.

I'll stop there for brevity's sake, but you'll insist on more and I'll provide it, so we already know what that game is.