What the hell is President Bush thinking?

He today announced he would begin the process of removing North Korea from the State Department's "State Sponsor of Terrorism" list. Why would he do that? Has North Korea stopped sponsoring terrorism? No...he is doing it because North Korea agreed to begin to release information about its nuclear program.

The astute reader may well ask, what the hell does releasing nuclear program data have to do with support for terrorism. I damn sure did and the answer I came up with was: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Bush's statement undermines the entire point of labelling a nation as a State sponsor of terrorism. Either North Korea sponsors terrorism and belongs on the list or it does not sponsor terrorism and does not belong on the list. Releasing its nuclear prograam data does not relate to whether or not North Korea sponsors terrorism.

I think it means by not releasing the data we were unable to confirm it's control over it's nuclear program and the assumption is without control, terrorists can obtain the ingredients for a weapon of mass destruction. It was thier lack of allowing us to verify thier nuclear controls that allowed us to designate them as 'potential' state sponsors of terrorism.

I don't think the designation was meant to say they are or ever were actually sponsoring terrorism. Simply having the unverifiable ability to made them a threat to us and any threat to us is sponsoring terrorism. You're either with or against us. With meaning agreeable to our terms, against meaning not so much.

Lawmage, Are you capable of accepting any good news except a military victory. In the panic after September 11, Bush named the three axies of evil countries, Iraq, Iran and North Korea. These were selected not because they supported terrorist, most of the world did that and the September 11 bombers came from Saudi Arabia.

He name them persumely because they represent the greatest threat to the USA. One of the reasons for this was their ability to get weapons of massed destruction or nuclear weapons. One of these countries had no such weapons, now another has dismantle its nuclear programne.
Surely should be happy. Now you only have to bomb Iran and the threat to the USA would diaapear.

Perhaps the reason is that he don't believe Bush rhetic. The USA is in greater danger now when two of the axies of evil are no longer a threat.

Its not about accepting news, Aus. If NK is not supporting terrorists then we ought not label them a state sponsor of terrorism. On the other hand, if they are supporting terrorism, we ought not remove that designation because they release information about their nuclear program.

Today, NK demolished its main reactor--the one capable of producing nuclear weapons. It was a 'non-event' for the run-of-the-mill NKorean and didn't even make it on to NK news.

Just what happened in NK? Did China step in and tell NK to 'cease and desist?" How heavily did US trade sanctions contribute to NKs capitulation?

NK has contributed nuclear information to Iran. I think this has been shown. Is this the only way they've supported terrorism--always assuming that Iran is a terrorist state? I don't know.

I know that John McCain has flip-flopped on many issues. Is George W. Bush now flip-flopping about NK in order to advance the Republican Party--and his heir-apparent?

Yes, of course, but that's not all there is to it.

Since we can take nothing at face value from this administration, let's consider the possibilities:

1. NK has crippled or destroyed its nuclear capability, just as reported, and sanctions will be lifted in return, which would be a great diplomatic coup for Bush and others.

2. NK is making a cosmetic gesture, and their real nuclear capability is actually hidden. The US Gov't is unaware of this.

3. Same as two, but the US government IS aware of it, making it a totally cynical, political move.

4. We, or China, or both, threatened to blow NK off the face of the earth if they didn't dismantle the nukes.

Well the problem of course is much greater than it would seem... and rather hard to explain to those who forget, or at least do not have a short term memory.

Kim Jong Il doesn't need a memory short term or otherwise.
He is at war, and has been since before he was born.
The rules for him are extremely clear and thus "we" know exactly what he is doing at all times.

It is "our" rules that become confusing.

You see you can ask any North Korean what is going on and they will answer without a moments hesitation: We are at war with America. We have been under a cease fire since 1954, our Dear leader is preparing us to cease... the cease fire.

In 1994 President Clinton sent a woman to speak with Kim Jong Il, many of us questioned that move but she was in that position and we did have a need to speak to him!
At that point he was "one or two years away" from making a nuclear weapon. We say that with a bit of joking because of course we had no real idea.
But he did have a known facility in Pyong Yang.
We offered to pay him millions to shut down that facility and of course offer UN oversight and we of course eventually raised that offer to billions... and then some!

When we reached his point (notice I didn't say price but point because after all he is playing a Chess game not a political one) he smiled and declared, "Of course the UN can monitor this nuclear plant and of course I promise not to open any others."

Some of my associates blaim Clinton for this but he had to try it. All civilized men must attempt such a diplomacy first.

But all that Kim Jong Il did was follow the advice of others like his father: While at war lying to your enemy is not only warranted but the best practice: OR Democracy will give you the rope to hang it with if you only wait for the offer.

Which brings China into the mix.... oh... China!
Set aside my obvious bias the last quote came from China.
Kim Jong Il shut down one public reactor and opened four that were not public. In return it was provided billions and of course 25% automatically went to the military to fund new weapons that would destroy the enemy.
And time passed.

Nothing is different today.
Except for that one quality which the North Koreans and Chinese count on.
After screwing us with Clintons offer Bush approached with the correct appeal: NOTHING! Not one inch and not one second! If you want to lift sanctions you present options.
The approach worked so well that nations like Lybia came out of nowhere and said, "Hey... I don't want a part of this action, come in and do whatever you want!"
But Rhetoric got tougher, something that Kim has no concern about. And maybe he is right in the end, because the elections started coming up, and a young men started talking about conversion and old men apparently were forced to show.... I don't know... what?

North Korea has nuclear weapons. FACT
North Korea is making nuclear weapons. FACT
It will take whatever is offered not to do so and continue to do so. FACT
And sadly.... it is "right" in doing so!

Our country seems to sell itself out every four years or so.
Sad but true.

This would be like knowing NK was making nuclear weapons weeks before the Iraq invasion but not making that information public until a week after.

Was it not on the list because it would not release it's information on its nuclear weapons; and was therefore treated as a possible terrorist threat; now that it has released the information it has been taken off the list because the government have decided that its nuclear arms are legit?

Welcome to Fool Moon, Savage. Nice to have you with us.

Isn't that like saying that a man carrying a concealed weapon is a threat, but once he says "I'm carrying a concealed weapon" he is no longer a threat?

If so, that doesn't seem to make much sense.

Indeed, Dax. My concern with North Korea was not so much its nuclear program or its terrorist activities but rather with the inconsistencies in our own activity. Refusing to reveal the details of your nuclear program does not qualify you as a terrorist sponsor and similarly, revealing your nuclear program does not mean you are suddenly no longer a state sponsor of terrorism. When our government takes action like it did with North Korea and removes them from the list of state sponsors of terrorism because they revealed their nuclear program we are essentially admitting that our terrorism list is meaningless and is nothing more than a political tool. That is not a policy we ought to embrace.

I agree.

Unfortunately, it's a policy we have been embracing for the last seven years.