I think it is interesting to see the riots in Tibet being given so much attention in the media. Let me say from the out-set that I don't believe the West has nothing to do with disturbances in Tibet, so I think it's only right the Chinese deal with Tibetans like the Jews deal with the Palestinians: Humanely putting them down one by one. I have a question: Is China's claim on Tibet more valid than Israel's claim on Palestine?

I think once the Olympics are over China is going to flex its muscles, while reminding the world that China does not like losing face as it is now with the embarrassment over Tibet.

I think Cassiel is using irony in his posts. Tibet has always been China's biggest internal problem. Even when I was there in 1975 the Chinese authorities refuses to discuss this issue.

Tibet no longer wants independence but autonmy. Hong Kong and Macau have this. Why are Buddhist temples and even Christian churches are allowed in these territories but not encourage in Tibet?
An attempt to flood Tibet with Han chinese will fail. Rarely is an occupying power are able to change the ethnic makeup of a society without a great deal of harm.

For China's sake it should allow autonomy for Tibet. It must face up to the issue as will not go away.

Biggest lot of bullshit you have posted yet!

I wont even qualify that with a reason, it pretty damned obvious.

No it's not.

What?

Not the biggest pile of bull or pretty damned obvious?

Here is a polite request: Can we please have posts with slightly more substance than "No it's not" please? It's a little vague, and doesn't add much.

Anyway...

There are certain differences between the China/Tibet situation and the one in Israel/Palestine. For example, I have not seen many Palestinians on peaceful protest marches demanding democracy. On the other hand, I've not seen that many Tibetan monks blowing up Chinese discos. So I think we can agree the situations aren't quite the same.

I don't agree with Israel's policy, at least not all of it. In my opinion they are too heavy-handed, and accept too much death of innocent people in Gaza and the West Bank as collateral. I think that is due to having grown up in the latter part of Northern Ireland conflict, I've seen other ways of fighting terrorism than that used by Israel.

On the other hand, China's method of dealing with Tibet is outrageous. The merciless way they have crushed any opposition there, and destroyed peaceful marches is, frankly, disgusting.

Biblical literalists should be able to accept Israel's policy with no problem, as the God of the Old Testament was a vengeful, take-no-prisoners God who'd happily slay every man, woman and child in a captured nation because they were enemies of the chosen people.

Israel doesn't go quite as far as God in that respect.

Re Tibet, the diffrences between Tibet and China vs. Israel and Palestine are so vast as to require only the slightest hint of intelligence to understand.

Tibet was a homogeneous country, a warrior country converted over the course of 100 years to a nation of peaceful people, through the power of Buddhism.

They were minding their own business when the Chinese invaded them on the pretext that the land actually belonged to China. The Chinese killed who they had to, took over, and eventually subjugated the peaceful and religious Tibetans.

The situation of Israel (a heterogeneous population, a newly created country, an emotional symbol for holocaust survivors, a homeland for the diaspora Jews) and Palestine (most of whose population is Jordanian, the true homeland of the Palestinians) is as different from China-Tibet as night and day.

Dax;

All that you say there a famous Jewish writer called Arthur Kostler wrote a book called the Thirteenth Tribe which says that the Jews true homeland really is Russia,nowhere near the middleast.

Dax China has been around for at least 5000 years America is telling china that Tibet is not part of China,China must thinking that "America has got some front" they must be thinking this country came about "last week Friday" and you are going to tell us what's what in our back yard,do you know how funny that must be to the Chinese?I am betting though that the Chinese stopped laughing when they heard that Pelosi woman speak yesterday was she on drugs?

Koestler (the correct spelling) may say Russia is the real Jewish homeland, but that doesn't mean it's so. There is much biblical, architectural and historical evidence to show otherwise.


Tibet's been around since at least 1063 BC and was a recognized, independent nation, which had never needed China, but China one day in 1949 decided they wanted to "liberate" all Chinese, including those in Tibet. Negotiations failed, and China attacked Tibet in 1950. All it was, really, was a successful attempt by China to grab some more territory. Tibet is now considered a part of China.

Dax:

All this evidence you talk of is all lies,and the world now knows this and this is why ant-semetism is rising all over the world.

Dax:


No Dax just because the west says that the Jews homeland is in Israel does not make it so.

You see Dax. You need to stop telling all these silly old lies of yours. (sigh) It's SOOOOO embarrassing for those of us who know the truth. I mean the true truth and not those Jewish-Cabal truths you're so fond of.

Great answer.

Wow! That has to be the most delusional thing I have seen CassielA post to date. All I can say is, Wow!

My oppinion is this.......... and that is that all people on this earth has a right to live free (That includes Tibetans and Palestinians), Nobody should be put down for wanting to be free or to control their own destiny.

The powers that be (China and Israel) need to figure out a way to include these people that they have to live around, in a fair and peacful way (But I think I might be dreaming or just wishful thinking).

SPM, what do the "powers that be" do when the "people that have to live around them" are unwilling to live "in a fair and peaceful way?" In Tibet, the Buddhist majority is generally willing to live in peace with China. In Israel, the Palestinians are not willing to live in peace as evidenced by their continued calls for the eradication of Israel, their coninued bombardments of civilian towns, and their continued launching of homocide bomber attacks.

All the Tibetans want is relative autonomy and to be able to practice their religion without persecution or fear of persecution.

One monk, who survived the Chinese jails and work camps, and eventually escaped to India, stated what his biggest fear was and he answered, "That I would lose my love and compassion of the Chinese." I'd drop over dead if I heard a Palestinian say that.

The Chinese government is still arresting monks, nuns and other practicing Buddhists. They use electric rods and insert them up a monk's anus or into a nun's vagina, then shock them over and over. Young Tibetan women are turning to prostitution as the Chinese living in Tibet won't employ them. The number of homeless Tibetans in Tibet grows daily.

The world rewards China with hosting the Olympics. I don't understand......

But anyone who sees the situation with the Tibetans as the same or very similiar than the ones with the Palestinians, isn't playing with a full deck, IMO.

I understand what you mean in regards to Palestine, but it's the militia's there that are causing the trouble the average citizen there (Though they may not like Israel) is willing to try to live with them, but it's the people they have in authority there that want the fight.

Is it really, SPM? Hureea, and others, will tell us the Palestinian peoples of Gaz elected HAMAS to office. They choose HAMAS to represent them in their relationship with Israel and with the West. I would suggest that decision indicates the people of Palestine are NOT in fact willing to live in peace with Israel.

On the other hand, Tibet was invaded by China. Its lawful government was forcefully removed and its people subject to abuse and persecution. And yet...the Tibetians have generally been nonviolent in their 59 year struggle for autonomy. Even now, as Sangye relates, a Tibetian monk escaping from Chinese persecution and abuse says his biggest fear was he would lose his love and compassion for the Chinese.

It is very, very dangerous to try and equate China and Israel or Tibet and Palestine in any discussion. It runs the risk someone might point out the dissimilarities rather than allow the alleged similarities to stand unchallenged. I am not suggesting that you (SPM) personally think there exists some equivalency but I wanted to broach this topic at the very outset.

LM, I think the problem stands with the older people who can't let the past go on both sides, the younger people who have'nt been (who don't have the power, on either side) want to get on with life and leave the conflicts of the past in the past.

Back to the subject of China, they don't care about whether or not the tibetan govt. is lawfully elected, they see tibet as their territorry and eventually they will try to wipe tibet (as an indepedent entity) off the map. This is just the begginig I believe as China will try to flex it's military as well as economic muscle.

SPM,

You do know that Tibet has ceased to exist as an entity since about 1950 right? You do also know it was not economic but military might that was flexed in 1950, right?

See, Tibet WAS a country, just as we are a country. It had its own government and was independent, just like we are. Then China came in and said, "We're going to bring you into the 20th century." Tibet relied, "We're already working on that ourselves." Then China said, "Well, we decided you, Tibet, are really art of China and you will be whether you like it or not."

Kind of like when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Of course Tibet had and has no oil, so nobody really did anything.

Hello SangyeDolma,

I should have been more specific, I should have said that China wants the name tibet wiped from the face of the earth and the memory of it, I surprised that have'nt changed the name of that region.

Even though tibet was annexed by China, they were still kind of seperate from China to the outside world, you have people going to visit the dali lama and the tibetan monks, and things such as that, but I believe China wants it (the tibetan culture) all out of the way and eliminated for all time.

And yes if tibet had oil you could bet the world would have been in an up roar by now even before now.

Hi SPM,

Technically, China has done away with the name 'Tibet' and has renamed the region.

Nobody goes there anymore to see The Dalai Lama as he fled into exile in 1959. Anyone in Tibet caught even with a photo of him is tried for treason. The people who made the movie Kundun, even Brad Pitt, has been banned from China, as it shows the early life of the Dalai Lama including the Chinese takeover.

No foreigner is allowed to talk to any monks or nuns on Tibet anymore.

The monasteries and nunneries are all under Chinese control and a lot of what tourists see is all pretend, all staged. The Chinese even have spies in the monasteries and nunneries.

But you're right that China wants all Tibetan culture wiped off the earth.

That's a shame because the world is losing more and more of its unique cultures everyday.

Tibet will never been forgotten, since the fruit of its teachings and culture have traveled to other lands, even back to the historic birth place of those teachings, in N. India.

China has miserably failed if they have intended to destroy the memory of Tibet, though of course they will do their best to destroy the culture of all those Tibetans who remain living in Tibet.

I have already said China's policy towards Tibet is wrong. They should at least give the same autonomy to Tibet as it does to hong Kong amnd Macau.

I think it is dangerous to make statements like
There may be some Chinese who like those in the Culture Revolution want to destroy the past to bring in a new system. However most Chinese value their past. Buddhist temples have been preserved even in Beijing. The problem in Tibet is that the Han Chinese see the Tibetans as a threat. They are trying to settle in Tibet to lessen the numbers of Tibetans. I think this wrong and will fail. The unique culture of Tibet will survive as has the regional cutures of other pats of China.It is true that However this is also true in Cambodia and Vietnam. Surely showing of monastries to tourists is at least an indication that they want to preseve some aspects of Buddhist culture. Of course all tours are control however I am not sure they can be call pretence. It is true that many Buddhists in China do not support the Daila Lama, He is a political figure as well as a spiritual leader.

However I do support his call not to boycott the Olympic Games. I attended the Moscow Games and found the American boycott had no effect. In fact there were more World Records broken there than most other Games.

Visitors to the Games might see a clean up city but at least there is some reform. If the Games are held, China may be for es to make some gestures towards Darful in the Sudan and Tibet.

Hi aus22! I should amend what I said about the Chinese. When I referred to the Chinese I meant the Chinese government, not the people.

We just had new neighbors move in next door and the woman is from China. I haven't met her yet but my husband has. He said she has a Chinese accent but her English is good and clear. She gave Ken two gifts to give to me. That was so sweet. Ken was worried I'd have a problem with her as she's Chinese and there's the whole Tibet mess. I said I didn't have a problem with anyone Chinese, it's their government. He breathed a huge sigh of relief.

I've mentioned before that there's a wonderful book called "In Exile From the Land of Snows" which is a very readable history of Tibet and of the Chinese takeover. I know that Sangye has read it and enjoyed it as well.

The chapter on Tibetan medicine alone is worth your time (if you take it out of the library) and money (if you buy it).

Highly recommended.

I will keep a look out for it in the book stores.

It's not a new book, so you're unlikely to find it there. I'd suggest the library or alibris.com.

Dax, it is still in publication, believe it or not. It is a wonderful book! I highly recommend it. It's very sad at times, but hopeful. The Tibetans never lose their hope.

First of all Cy_Click I just want to say that having you around on foolmoon I think has been wonderful.
Dax:

There are lots of books I hope to read and this could be one of them but before I read a book like that I would want to read a book about China that detailed the circumstances that made 60 million Chinese heroin addicts,what made China hand Hong-kong over to the British?All thinking and aware people don't watch or listen to the hysterical when it comes to China and Tibet.
Dax: