Ray has got it dug deep to his mind that the issue is all about suicide bombers, not about a viabel palestinian state that has been promised, nor about the discrimination against the palestinians, nor about the stealing of palestinian land, nor about the building of illegal settelments. And this is all before suicide bombings was even an issue....

The Israelis want to carry out the quite destruction of a palestinian state, and to defeat all resistance in its way, be it a demonstration, pro-pal media, foreign aid and support, stone throwing youths, armed resistance fighters, and ofcourse the suicide bombers which the pro-israeli media use to justify any actions...

I would like to add that even if the Suicide bombing was to stop Israel actions would still continue, and no one would care, this happened in the first 2 months of the intifada, were only the stone throwers were resisting and they were faced by tanks in their own land shooting live fire, killing M Dura and co ...

In a latest poll 72% Pals support suicide bombings, 98% support all forms of resistance, and only 11% want to resume negotiation now why is that???

lol Wrong answer ebjester.... Its because what israel is doing is wrong.. and the only people who do not realise this yet are those in Israel, and the US (both highly populated jewish areas and controled by pro-jewish lobbies) ... Some jews agree with this fact.

The quicker you guys wake up the better for your jewish state and for your morals... its a matter of time...

It is a fact that even if the Suicide bombings were to stop, or cool down, the Israelis will still continue occupying, make incursions and target the innocent as an excuse to track down and kill yet more "terrorist" , I mean if you are still fooled by this excuse then we should be worried, who are the never ending terrorists, the 98% of palestinians who support any form of resistance against OCCUPATION, yes the one and only occupation in the new 21st cent civilised world.. Catch up.

In order to clear up any misunderstandings....Ray is right, I did not suggest that the Palistinians could throw the Israelis out themself.

The Palistinians are supposedly supported by the general Arab community...and by myself in theory.
But they, themselves, could not muster the numbers needed to combat the Israeli army.

ALB knows that I have never been against violence, or even violent resistance by the Palistinians, he is just looking for buttons to push.
The Palistinians have a right to resist.
And even the use of suicide bombers is not beyond the acceptable levels of such resistance.
But the use of bombings, suicidal or not, against civilian targets is completely wrong on every level.

ALB is correct, Arafat is saying "give peace a chance".
But as I've said before...it is a little too late.
Screaming support of violent acts for fifty years, then mumbling a plea for peace only after your existance as a leader is threatened, is a good way to show your people that you support violence.
Again, if a US pilot is shot down and captured, and is then shown on tv declaring that America is wrong....the viewer assumes that the pilot is under duress and doesn't really mean it.
The same with Arafat, Palistinians know better, and so does Hamas.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
JERUSALEM — A suicide bomber detonated his explosives Sunday in a fruit and vegetable market in the coastal city of Netanya wounding at least 28 people

Sunday's bombing came hours after Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres outlined a peace plan Sunday that calls for streamlining the Palestinian security forces immediately followed by the establishment of a state in areas already under Palestinian control.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> posted by Ray in this thread May 10
Arafat can make noises all day long about how he abhors terrorism, and we all believe him, don't we? (wink) We know Arafat is truly a man of peace (wink, wink) who would love to settle this issue if ONLY those darned Israelis would give him a chance. (wink, wink, wink) And when he puts his foot down and "orders" Hamas to stop all that danged suicide bombing, by golly HE MEANS BUSINESS!! (wink, wink, wink, wink, wink, wink, wink, wink, wink)</font><hr /></blockquote>

So, Alienlovebeast, what do you suggest Israel do in response to terrorist attacks.

PS: What evidence do you have that Israel committed a massacre?

I recall you telling me that America should stop exporting Qurans to Afghanistan in order to dampen extremism. Although I'm not aware that America made exceptions to its sanctions against Afghanistan, perhaps we should stop the exportation of Qurans to all countries, as well as Bibles, where they breed extremism. You are aware, considering you work for a humanitarian organization, that the Quran is one of the only books, or thing for that matter, that keeps hope alive for Afghans, other than international aid and peace-keepers.

I may not believe in God, but I do believe in religion.

The Qurans(Korans) I referred to previously Patriot, was in relation to the books given to the Taliban while they were in power. According to an article in the Washington Post, these books were full of religious extremism, pictures of tanks and guns, images lauding the concept of martyrdom. These books were given/sold/exported from the USA to the Taliban.

The Korans being given now have been purged of the more 'extreme' content...

As for what can be done to stop terrorism... Well, all terrorists have grievances(legitimate or not), the grievances need to be addressed, not ignored.
Terrorist attacks on the Capitalist West will stop when we stop p*ssing off people around the world, when we stop selling dictators weapons, when we stop exploiting the 3rd world, when we stop having profit as our God.

Easy really...

So America exported extremist Qurans to Afghanistan? Evidence?

Secondly, how would the content of a Quran have an effect on the terrorist network? Osama bin Laden is supported regardless--many Afghans had already been poisoned by his propaganda.

And how would this free the Afghans from the hands of the Taliban? may I ask.

Terrorist grievances do not need to be addressed-innocents' grievances need to be addressed. You can address these grievances by first removing illegitimate and repressive regimes (terrorists)- fried Taliban, anyone?

ALB- As for what can be done to stop terrorism... Well, all terrorists have grievances(legitimate or not), the grievances need to be addressed, not ignored.
Terrorist attacks on the Capitalist West will stop when we stop p*ssing off people around the world, when we stop selling dictators weapons, when we stop exploiting the 3rd world, when we stop having profit as our God.

Wax- You are still putting the horse behind the cart Alien!
Terrorists will never be awarded for taking the path that they have chosen...period!
And while they attack in such cowardly and concealed ways, the mainstream of the Muslim world will suffer more and more because of association.
Terrorism itself precludes open discussion about bettering the Arab position, again, you don't sucker punch someone, and then wonder why they refused to have a civilized conversation.

America only wants two things: Security, and revenge against those who have attacked us.
After that, we will decide how "freindly" our relations should be with the Arab world.
But the ball is in their court.

Let us put it this way.
The Saudi Shieks stand up and say here, take Bin Laden and all of his buddies...do whatever you need to do with him.
Take out Saddam and allow them to replace him with someone that hasn't offended you yet.
Now....get off our land and stop sending us all of your assistance and money.
Listen to us when we warn against actions that may offend our people, and treat us with some respect.

Fine, the American people would be more than happy with this.
We would replace Arab oil gradually, but on a quicker pace than we previously planned.
And we would go home.

But if the Arabs wish to side with the terrorists instead, and attempt to fix problems that exist in our "relationship" in the middle of a streetfight......well, it just means that we have more people to kill than most of us thought we had.
There is only one way to win: It's not pretty, it's not freindly, but it hasn't changed since 9-11.
The acts carried out that day negated the approach that you would like to see.
It was not a criminal action, to be handled by a courtroom.
It was not an attention getting action, to insure discussion.
It was an act of war, supported by approximately 15% of the Arab world.
The other 85% percent should be just as pissed as we are, because now their only choice is to fight or step aside.
Before 9-11 Americans got to listen to all sorts of complaints about our violent, gun loving culture, in fact we heard complaints about nearly every aspect of our country.
Well....now the truth can truely be seen.
Fightin's commenced, now skin that leg iron and get to shootin' or step aside and shut your pie whole!
It's dying time now, crying time comes later!