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#242583 - 12/21/07 07:06 PM
Re: Just Curious
[Re: Carlo Hollywood]
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Master Debater
Registered: 12/04/01
Loc: southern mn
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gateway or doorway open up ... he witnessed a sword
Wax- There are a number of cultures that have supported the sword and doorway as a transition medium in mythological belief. Ultimately what is observed during these common instances is less important than the observation itself, there are really two phenomenon involved.
1. The very human need to make sense of what we see. It is so deep that we not only interprit for others when we relate what is observed but our own eyes and minds force an interpritation upon ourselves as we observe something.
So what was actually seen? A common mirage associated with the sun such as a sun dog or heat affect varience? A small plane flying obliqued by a light source? A door with a sword in it? The answer is likely in there somewhere but it is impossible to know now as the event has passed.
2. Mythological influence on individual psyche.
As I mentioned differing cultures before in this particular observation, some Freudians would have a feild trip with it.
The door of course is as early as our written history can be observed and it makes perfect sense. The door represents an unknown change, a transition which could be very good or even worse than what we now have. There are two particular cultures that have deep influence on the modern day which can be used as examples: Judeo-Christian and Medieval/Germanic.
Concerning the door. Judeo-Christian = The transition is associated with a higher power offering a way out of trouble. God has shown that there is another way and that way as it is represented by a door is always a good choice. It is a relief of duty and a recognition of deservedness concerning that relief. Examples can be found in the Bible such as Jacobs ladder.
Medieval/Germanic = a heavy Norse influence when it comes to this particular observation. The door represents a duty which must be undertaken in order to change a negative. While it is also associated with a higher power (the gods) are never bound by expectations concerning benefit or danger as the (God) of Judeo tradition. Interestingly both cultures include a light behind the door but moving into the light for a warrior is not the same step as it is for a supplicant. The Sagas often use the door prior to extreme risk, the Ericksons reported one before attempting to conquer Greenland and before Leif bet everything on the unknown to reach America.
As for the Sword. Judeo-Christian = This is the warning for struggle. And not by coincidence the observers environment dictates whether the struggle will be predicted to end positively or negatively for the viewer. If one is in power trouble is coming, if someone else is in power then things are looking up. Medieval/Germanic = The most powerful call to action that could possibly exist... and understandably so. The sword was much more than a weapon, it was a symbol of duty and represented both opportunity and a very real burden. Most modern people do not realize how extremely rare swords were, and how important they were not only on the battlefield but also in society. Every young boy saw one and wanted it desperately. But they also had some idea of what it would take to get one. Many more tried and failed than succeeded. Every Saga is clear concerning the sword: If you start a quest with one you have earned then there is no way you can fail... but... if one is given to you by another then you are in for an extremely rough ride! Luke Skywalker was a bit different in Return of the Jedi than he was when Obiwan handed him his fathers light sabor, and even Lucas himself admits that story was taken directly from Norse myth (including the adversary offering his hand and declaring himself the heros father (or a way out of hardship) by the way).
So what does it mean? Predictions of Global Warming, Jihadist Terrorists at the gate, economic disaster right around the corner, Aides and other maladies almost assured to affect us... the end of the world as we know it right around the corner if we are to believe modern media and the hysteria that affluence brings. As I type this my television is off but I can see a reflection on it out of the corner of my eye. Yea... a door with a sword in it sounds about right!
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Courage is not an emotion, it is an act of will. Pain which does not kill you, makes you stronger, and, very, very, mean!
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#243343 - 12/28/07 04:15 PM
Re: Just Curious
[Re: Myrddin]
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Master Debater
Registered: 12/04/01
Loc: southern mn
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Myrddin - ... association of a sword with a lake, could be connected with the ancient tradition of sacrificing weapons and other valuable goods in bodies of water, like lakes...
Wax- Great catch, I missed the lake entirely! Depending on who one reads the "body of water" could have very well have represented the underworld.
I personally like an alternative theory however: We know for a fact that swords and other bladed weapons were returned to water after the death of its' owner. This reverence was likely reserved for a very special leader but it was well known right up until post medieval times and the return of Excaliber to the Lady of the Lake appears very early in Arthurian legends. Of course our findings of weapons in previous bodies of water also support the treatment in both Norse and Celtic traditions. But why???
As was stated it could have been an underworld god worship thing but it could also be much less divine... or more earthly in a way.
My favorite theory involves how iron becomes strong and why it's makers might naturally tend to give water as an original owner of that strength. Water is what turns iron to steel and the forger must quench the heat in water to both harden the new steel and to gtemper it so it is not too brittle. It is not too much of a leap to assume that the creation of a sword in such a mystical but mystically required way to blend itself into the mythology of the man who would wield such a weapon. In such a scenerio the owner of the sword would actually borrow the power of the water and rely on it to wield the sword throughout his life. Swords break in battle, they can be too brittle and shatter when they are most needed... perhaps the Lady of the Lake no longer took favor with such a warrior. But if it held throughout the life of the leader in question... if the water that quenched it caused it to serve its' master well... then perhaps that sword would be returned to the water that allowed it to be formed in remembrance of the leader that carried it. In reverence not only for him but that which allowed him to be what he had become.
A religion to be sure but in some ways more powerful, a funeral right and a measurement of passing and perhaps not a "passage to the underworld".
In the end of course both are simply theories based on observation and best guesses. As in all things the truth is probably somewhere in between.
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